What about the millions of people that die young and don't deserve it at all? Human suffering is in no short supply these days. I'm not trying to make this an anecdotal argument, but just as far as I can see, being a good person has no bearing on your happiness. What about people that are so nice, they turn into doormats? Or powerful dicks who people cannot turn down or otherwise deride? I think karma is the definition of religious beliefs through optimistic thinking and/or desperation. People have the inherent desire to see the universe as an orderly and lawful place, because if it's not we are just some scarily developed monkeys on an isolated rock in an engulfing darkness. Why do you think we created the concept of heaven and hell? We want "bad" people to be punished, and since plenty of bad people on Earth live long and fruitful lives, we tell ourselves that they'll be suffering for eternity or something like that. That doesn't make sense to me. Nothing about convincing people you are a nice person actually requires you to be nice. If that's your theory, then I can see the merit in it, yet I don't see how you need this artificial construct of karma to justify those beliefs.
First off, that's nothing but an anecdotal argument ("as far as I can see"). Second off, and especially to the bolded, it might not be wise to speak for other people (I have seen the truly good be truly happy). As I said in my earlier reply, one cannot simply seek out good karma. The longing and desire for good karma will only bring about bad karma, because despite the good actions, the ultimate desire is personal gain. Sure, you help someone, but you want to feel better. Or in the uneducated idea of what karma is, you want good luck. There's a number of different things wrong with your retort. The most glaring, however, is that you never define what "happiness" truly is. How can you see something when you don't even recognize it? edit: Just read your reply, realized you're an atheist. Honestly, one question for the over-opinionated, need-to-be-seen atheists out there: Why do you go into a thread that you know clearly will involve metaphysical/religious discussions, only to start debates, when you know preemptively that you've already completely dismissed any kind of belief in supernatural forces? It's childish. It's also funny that you dismiss something such as karma without even fully understanding it.
Since I am the unofficial Santa of GC, I think I should comment. Karma is not a 24/7 version of Santa Claus. What you are talking about is how some parents use Santa to keep them in line around the holidays. "Be a good boy because Santa is watching. If you are good, you get presents. If you are bad, you get coal." kids are looking for immediate gratification by pleasing Santa, whereas with Karma, it comes when it comes.
Actually this would explain why bad people live prosperously and good people suffer. They may have done very good/very bad things in past lives. At this point it is no longer physical or even mental suffering/thriving. It is spiritual.
If you dont mind me stating my opinion, the millions of people that die young have lived meaningful lives. In my opinion every death is justified, whether to serve as an example to those around them, or simply that what they were here to do was fulfilled and had nothing more to accomplish. True, many lives seem to be tragicly cut short, but the way i see it is that they lived lives as full as any other person.
The argument that good people's lives are cut short, and bad people live prosperous lives is kind of silly, especially when talking about Karma... Whose to say these people that are dying young aren't the lucky ones? Maybe they are the good people, and are being rewarded. Yes, the idea that Death is a reward seems absurd, but thats because we just don't know that is on the other side.
... That's the point of me saying what I did. I'm well aware of what anecdotal evidence is. Unfortunately, you can't really quantify any relevant data for an argument about karma, so we are reduced to ideology and anecdotes. If I limit my theory of "goodness having no relation to happiness" to myself, you really only get one underwhelming piece of evidence to discuss. While I'm not an evil person, I don't go out of my way to help everyone around me either and my life is so-so at the moment. Happy? Besides, you say not to speak for other people but then you tell me about other people who are happy. What would you call that? You don't first-hand they are happy, you derived that from their actions, words, etc. Well so did I. Well that's fine and all, but I'm not disputing how karma works as much as I'm saying it doesn't work. Not to mention that even if you would argue that good acts for personal gain are not inherently good, surely you could not offer the same retort for "bad karma". If a person does some evil and is not aware of karma, well ignorance is no excuse right? If they are aware of karma and are evil anyway, they show a clear disdain for the consequences, another "bad" thing. Yet history is littered with horrible men conducting genocide, total war, etc. and living great and long lives. How can you externally say x person is happy or not? Happiness is an internal and artificial construct; it's not like you can find a mark on a happy person and identify them. If said person identifies themselves as happy, regardless of the situation at hand, then they are happy. You can only look for the secondary characteristics of happiness, like, I don't know, someone telling you about how great their life is. It's a state of mind. If you are saying that I cannot truly know whether someone is happy or not, I'd say that's an interesting point, but also a universal opinion. Surely if I can't just glance at a person and sense they're true feelings, then you can't either. Unless you'd like the make the cause for having a preternatural ability to read mind or something like that. First things first, in this thread and even in my entire posting career on these forums, I have never personally derided someone for believing in (a) god(s). Don't make the classic mistake of seeing my questioning of your beliefs as an assault on them. To be honest, I do often see segments in posts from religious people and say to myself, "How can you believe that?" But that's a knee jerk reaction for anyone learning about a different religion (or lack thereof). Think about the Ancient Mayans and how ridiculous their beliefs seem to you. Yours would seem just as dumb to them. Second, I am not steadfastly opposed to the supernatural, just opposed to the belief in them with our current body of evidence. If, say, you could cite a peer reviewed scientific study that somehow (and I don't know how, this is a hypothetical anyways) proved karma, I would instantly change my beliefs to jive with the current body of evidence. Until then, I'll remain on my side of the fence. Thirdly, why am I over-opinionated with a "need to be seen"? Because in a thread about karma, I stated my personal belief on said issue? How does my opinion lack merit because I don't believe in a god? Karma and the lack of a god aren't mutually exclusive, although I'll concede that I don't see how you can believe in karma without establishing some sort of supernatural system that's "keeping score", so to speak. If I don't fully understand it, then enlighten me instead of complaining about it. Saying, "You just don't get it." is a poor excuse for "I don't know how to express myself very well." I am not diametrically opposed to everything you say, believe it or not. I'm also not an idiot, so any attempts to explain your idea of what karma is would not be wasted. I don't see how the time limit on it is very important but either way, I'll concede that my analogy was just that, an imperfect analogy. Of course the two are not 100% the same, but it's interesting to me how both are beliefs centered around the idea that following some dictated moral code will cause you to have a better life. Which isn't surprising considering that most religions can be boiled down to that basic belief or it's counterpart; don't follow said moral code and your life will suck. Not at all. There's a certain warm and fuzzy nature to your belief, but speaking as a person who sees humans as nothing more than organic machines that will eventually fail, I have to disagree. Tell me how a baby who dies in the first month of his life had a full and meaningful life.
For real. The tube was relatively cheap, ($18.49) And i'm hoping to see the guy again. he was a very nice person
The nice people will not always be overlooked. They will have good friends and lovers, there will be people in their lives who appreciate them. The powerful dicks, everyone is pleasant enough to their face but behind their backs true opinions are shared. These people know that everyone around them is fake and they live an isolated existence. No one wants to be emotionally close to them. ?? I'm not sure what you mean. You don't need to convince anyone of anything. I was just say if you are nice to strangers it probably means you're really nice to friends and family as well. I think karma is just a word describing the reality of treating people well sees you better treated. It's not really a mystical force or anything like that. (well probably not...)