Vegetative Manipulation via Grafting

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by Dr_Greenery, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. This post will briefly bring readers up-to-date regarding a personal, ongoing experiment of mine. If anyone is as interested in the results as I am, I will take the time to expand and include photographs.

    I am currently in the midst of my first grow (i.e., indoor, 600w LED, three plants total.) As this grow comes alongside my current medical studies, I have had no time to research marijuana cultivation (explicitly) and have relied solely upon knowledge obtained during an advanced plant biology course I took during my understudy.

    In this grow, two of the seeds were obtained from the same sack of outdoor-grown marijuana (we will call them Dirt1 and Dirt2.) The third seed contained the Black Dog strain (we will call her Black.) Around a month into the vegetation stage, Dirt1 and Dirt2 were identically taller than Black (by approx 7in.) To counteract the height difference I used a grafting technique I had learned in plant biology in which apple farmers took cuttings from desirable trees and tied them with yarn to the undesirable trees they wanted to manipulate. Using this technique, early farmers were able to transfer desirable traits to undesirable trees. For colonial apple farmers, this method was used to ensure the consistency of desirable fruit traits across a variety of tree strains.

    Using the same witchcraft-based methods, I removed a stem from Black and yarned it to the base of Dirt1's apical stem. Three days later (and I shit you not,) Dirt1 had utterly discontinued rostral expansion and was hyperextending peripherally. Black's reduced height had immediately integrated into Dirt1's growth output. I was in disbelief when I compared Dirt1's (experimental) manipulated growth to the unmanipulated (control) growth of Dirt2.

    It was only after some personal research I realized that the grafting of cannabis might be reasonably unresearched. I would be grateful for feedback regarding references to pre-existing research, questions requesting further information, or pretty much anything else.

    Science be praised,
    Dr. Greenery
     
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  2. This is pretty interesting.

    I'd be super willing to examine some shots of the graft.
     
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  3. Pics or it didn’t happen.
     
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  4. Ok, the reference points of these pics did not turn out as well as I'd hoped but try to notice the pink marking on the wall behind them. I wish I had taken these pictures when I initially witnessed the effects of grafting (about 2 1/2 wks ago) due to the fact that the recent training of the plants have made the grafting differences less noticeable.... also, ignore the cat.

    This is Black, she has not been grafted, is very short, and tends to grow peripherally.

    This is Dirt2, she has not been grafted and is much taller than Black due to her apical expansion.

    This is Dirt1, she was grafted with a limb from Black (via yarn). Since her grafting, she has begun to grow stems lower on her base and initially, it was very evident that she had begun to focus her growth peripherally instead of apically. Grafting took place around 3 weeks ago, I am also excited to see if there are noticeable differences in Dirt2's buds.

    The entire purpose of this post was just to shine some light on the notion that grafting may be useful as a stress-free method of manipulating marijuana plants. I plan to continue grafting research next grow and will more accurately document the process.
     
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  5. I was wondering if you'd had a chance to check out the pics?
     
  6. I did indeed I zoomed in on that knuckle right there pretty nice and it looks good and healthy. Got any up close shots of the healed stem?
     
  7. Grafting could be a great way for people to grow multiple strains in states that limit plant count.
     
  8. Agreed.

    Have you personally experimented with grafting?

    Dr. G
     
  9. No I have not.
     
  10. I started a little grow journal for this grow, I don't think I got an up-close shot in my first post, but I'll get one for you in the next update!

    Also, the journal includes more specific pictures and information regarding the Dirt2 plant, helping with the grafting comparison.

    Dr. G

    Black Dog vs. Bag Seed Grow: Super-Cropping, Bending, and Grafting
     
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  11. This is great, I’ve briefly experimented with grafting cannabis a little while back. There was very little information about it anywhere so I just tried it similarly to how you’d graft other plants, as you did. I tried to essentially graft the plant to itself, my intent was to create a more perfect mainline out of my plant, by mending the two lower branches against the main stem and to the same level as the next set. So I has scrapped the sides and bound it together, now this particular one didn’t hold. I haven’t tried since, but I do believe the problem was simply in that that strain didn’t want to be grafted. I’ve read that a particular plants can vary drastically by sub species in their ability to accept grafts and other modifications. I’m sure you would know better than me with your background. Any advice would be appreciated.
    ...
    Also those photos aren’t working anymore


    -GM
    My Current Grow Journal

    https://forum.grasscity.com/index.p...x.php?threads/Grow-journal-Bag-seeds.1475047/
     
  12. GM,

    I added these photos via the "add media" option here on the site, I wonder if there are links you could click to view the pictures? Also, I received an error when attempting to view your journal.

    Your reply is super interesting! I have never considered grafting a plant to itself. From my understanding, desirable plants are typically grafted to undesirable plants in an attempt to transfer the desirable traits. However, I like where your head is at. So you were attempting to transfer the lower branches "potential" to the apical stem? Very interesting.

    Some information that may help with your next attempt: You mentioned that the graft you applied "didn't hold." This is certainly an issue when grafting, but I actually came across some false information in a growers bible I'd purchased which claimed that for a successful grafting, the graft must "take" and remain living for a minimum of two weeks.

    Let's clear something up. Yes, An OPTIMAL graft will "take" to the undesirable plant and remain living for weeks (or longer.) However, in any grafting case, the ONLY goal is to transfer desirable DNA. Whether or not the graft "takes" to the undesirable plant (or even shows signs of life longer than it would have if it were simply clipped and laid on a table) does not necessarily mean the desirable DNA did not transfer. Some of the apple farmers discussed in my class did not even plant grafted branches, simply tieing them to trunks of undesirable trees (and allowing the graft to immediately deteriorate.) I will attempt to cite this information in the future.

    Overall, the moral here is to not consider what seems to be a prematurely dying graft a failed attempt. A successful graft is confirmed once desirable traits have been identified in the (previously) undesirable plant, despite the visible condition or duration of the graft.

    Keep me updated and let me know if you have any other questions, maybe together we can provide future-grafters with some much-needed internet resources!

    Dr. G

    P.S, my grow journal:
    Black Dog vs. Bag Seed Grow: Super-Cropping, Bending, and Grafting
     
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  13. Hey there Dr. G.

    I have recently begun reading a book titled,

    Marijuana Botany - An Advanced study : The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis by Robert Connell Clarke

    It has a great deal of information concerning everything from the anatomy of cannabis, to the propagation, cultivation, and everything in between. It's truly fascinating and can be found in Gimiks Library of Organic PDF files. Labeled Mariujana Botany, its unmissable.

    IMG_3326.PNG
    Here is an excerpt I can across yesterday and I presume it may be intriguing even though its length is short. There may be more that I haven't gotten to yet, so either I can keep you updated, or possibly you may want to give it a read. If you haven't already. I am enticed to see where you take this and now will be following along. Good luck in your endeavors.

    J Evergreen
     
  14. Keep me updated and let me know if you have any other questions, maybe together we can provide future-grafters with some much-needed internet resources!

    Dr. G

    P.S, my grow journal:
    Black Dog vs. Bag Seed Grow: Super-Cropping, Bending, and Grafting[/QUOTE]

    I’m not sure what that’s about..what’s the error message?

    That’s interesting, see I’m not sure, but everything I’ve read about grafting cannabis says that there’s little to no chance of “genetic drift” between the strains when grafting, say a strain you like the branchiness of grafted onto a strain you like the root growth of. However I’ve never attempted to graft between strains. I certainly intend on doing more experiments with the idea, so I’ll definitely keep you updated on anything interesting I come across


    -GM
    My Current Grow Journal

    https://forum.grasscity.com/index.p...x.php?threads/Grow-journal-Bag-seeds.1475047/
     
  15. That is especially interesting.

    It is perplexing that this source quotes an even longer time of 8-12 weeks for the graft to "take place." This source (alongside my own) suggests the graft need "take" in order to accomplish a successful grafting. In my (minimal) experience, I have documented what I suspected to be grafting-induced growth manipulation within 5 days of attaching the graft (as compared to an ungrafted control plant.) However, too many variables were present for the graft to be the definite cause of the plant's decrease in rostral expansion.

    I am curious what the writer of your source means by: "...grafted together into one to produce very interesting specimen plants." What do you suspect the implied goal of grafting if not to transfer genetics?

    Science be praised,

    Dr. G
     
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  16. #17 JohnnyEvergreen, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    I suspect that it is implying simplify just that. A Multi-strain specimen, in which you can keep and have several strains on a single plant. Much like the Frankenstein theory of life completed with several different anatomical pieces just in this case, without anything being previously deceased.

    I believe his statement is a quotation of several theories put together by multiple scientist who diverged on the fact that when grafted, the cannabis plants did not transfer their genetics. Instead they just became an object in which to view and keep if you'd like. Which of course these specimen grow and I assume you could take clones of. Think of it almost like a database of genes from a single source that you could come to and take from but other than that, it's sort of null.

    Just my take anyways and again people disprove past theories anyways. Who knows, you might somehow get the genes to fuse. I just think the form of grafting we know now has many disadvantages and may not be the way to accomplish your goal. If your goal is to pass on desirable traits through manipulation. Perhaps contiune your journey until you find the path. Good luck Dr.

    J Evergreen
     
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  17. It is proven horticultural science that there is no DNA transfer between the scion and the rootstock when grafting. The grafted scions are a clone of the original mother plant. An easy example of this is apple grafting, you can graft several different varieties of apples on one tree, the resulting fruits are identical to the mother cutting, not a hybrid between the different varieties.

    PW
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Yes much too:

    should you have a few males they make excellent rootstock

    join that with grafting tape to any scion strain of your choice

    a mild entertainment value,

    but a great way to extend a failing pheno

    good luck
     
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