Truth or Fact : Are men equal?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by GGrass, May 22, 2010.

  1. There is TRUTH and then there is FACT.

    Similar, but with a bit of difference.

    TRUTH is something that remains the same through out the time. What was true yesterday, is true today, and it will be true tomorrow. Truth does not change with time, it remains the same.

    But FACT is different. It doesn't necessarily have to remain constant through out the time, in fact, it changes with time. FACT is just a description of the present state. As time passes, the state changes, and the fact about that state changes along with it.

    Let me give you some examples.

    Fire is hot.

    This statement is true because fire is always hot.

    Now try another one.

    There are nine planets in our solar system.

    This statement is fact because it is true only for now. Until someone finds the tenth planet, this statement is true, but once someone finds the tenth planet, this statement must be changed from 'nine planets' to 'ten planets'. So it changes with time, so it's not truth, it's just a fact.

    Now why am I desperately trying to distinguish the difference between TRUTH and FACT?

    Because I want to see if the statement below is TRUE or JUST A FACT.

    Men are equal.
    (Oh oh... here I go again...)

    In order to even consider if men are equal or not, we must conjure up at least two men in our minds. You'll need at least a couple to compare, right?

    So let's draw two men and compare them. See if they're equal.

    The first man. Who shall we draw?

    Let's draw a soldier. Nice helmet and mustache.

    Now the second man. Who shall we draw?

    Let's draw an Indian. Just ran from the forest and reached the beach.

    And there they meet. The two men from two worlds.


    A Spanish Conquistador... and an Aztec Indian.

    If you asked them if men were equal, what would they have said?

  2. now why would we ask them in the first place? plus the statement are men equal is not truth or a fact when you ask someone, its an opinion.

    are men equal as a species? yes

    lets take another example, a Buddhist monk hopeful sets out on a journey to find himself and comes across a savage tribe who decides he looks tastety.

    one perspective over an another
  3. I think the soldier would be much more materialistic than the indian. He'd have his mindset be more technology = better.

    If that's what you're basing your equality (word?) off of, then yes, the soldier is clearly more advanced.

    But, I think all men truly are "created" equal - everyone does the same shit when they are 1 year old. They may progress in their lives differently... let's say a peace activist vs. a meth dealer. At that point, I'd put the peace activist before the meth dealer, even though they were created equally. They just progressed differently.

    On that note though, meth addicts might see the meth dealer as more beneficial to them than the peace activist, so in some peoples' minds the meth dealer might be a better person.
  4. Is everyone equal? theoretically yes, but in reality no, because you can't change the way people think. You can try to teach someone that african americans are equal to white americans, but it doesn't matter. Because there are always gonna be people that think less of others.
  5. We are equal in the sense that we're all human.
    In every other sense we're not really equal.
  6. This is the truth.

    We are equal in a sense that we all have the opportunity to make choices in this life. We are not all equal because of the choices we do make in this life.

    Everyone must be treated so that they can choose. Once their decisions are made the judgments become justified.

    There are two men with guns with two more men standing ten feet away from them. At this point, the two original men are equal; both men have the opportunity to choose which action to take. One man shoots the man opposite him while the other doesn't. This choice, this climactic point of the decision making process, is what really matters. This is where men become unequal.

    Removing the ability of another human being to make a voluntary decision (by killing them, or any number of other evil actions) is something to judged.

    The point is that all men are created equal. All men have the ability to choose to do one thing over the other. Not all men make the same decisions, and this is where the inequality is founded.
  7. #7 Drivenone, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2010
    Oops! Pluto is only a planet in Illinois. The Federal Government no longer recongnises Pluto as a planet. Why only in Illinois? The man who discovered it, Clyde William Tombaugh, was from Illinois and in recognition of his discovery and the man himself, Illinois voted to keep Pluto as a planet.

    Pluto is now considered the largest member of a distinct population called the Kuiper belt, but originally is was a planet.

    So, your statement about 9 planets in the Solare System is completely false. However it is an excellent example of a fact that changed over time.

    To answer the question. At no time are/was men ever equal based on DNA, genetics, spirits, souls, or ways of thinking. Also given is that men are born into different cicumstance.
  8. When it comes down to it...survival of the fittest.
  9. All men are created/born equal. It's what you do with your life that makes you better or worse than others, and that is the TRUTH.
  10. that's a broad statement. Like black and white figure of speech, or like saying ANYONE can be as smart as say Albert Einstein. Some people are born with talents and some aren't.

    And what about genetics? Your parents actions on themselves (drug abuse for one) can alter your life on earth, your brain chemistry, genetics pretty much. This brings out a whole another discussion to the table in my eyes.
  11. I beleive that no blade is superior to any other blade.

    We eventually all get shat on, decapitated by grasscutting machines, or eaten by cows. Such is the life of a blade.

    Humans too are in a similar position.
  12. Er, except we're not created equal at all. What about people born with defects? Or mental illness? Or with simply less intelligence than most other people? These are all factors that play important roles in determining those choices you place so much importance on.

    That said, choice is still obviously important, but it's not the only thing that differentiates us by a long shot.
  13. It really depends on context. In the eyes of a democratic government: all men are created equal, because each person deserves the exact same rules and services from that governement.

    Biologically, absolutely not. I am not equal to someone who was born with a genetic disease that makes them impotent. I have reproductive ability, he does not.

    Someone else may have been born with more mental capacity, better bone structure, and more potent sperm, I am not equal with him, he is better than me.
  14. Merit and achievement are also pretty important if you are judging the inherent value of an individual. This would include things like intelligence, charisma, and looks which are not readily or easily changed from birth. You're right in that sense.

    The reason that choice is so important is because that these people, regardless of their upbringing, can still choose to overcome it. Is it harder? By far. Do I sympathize with them? Of course. But human beings are hardcore, brother. There is nothing in this world that can't be overcome if your mind is put to it.
  15. All men are equal and will remain equal, the only things the divides us is our actions and mentality and even those can be equal, for example: religious people that follow the rules perfectly can all be almost the same, even if they look different their response towards things will be the same because they follow something,
    as said by prophet Muhamed(ص)*all men are equal dead but their sins are what divides them*
  16. I don't think it's a choice so much. I think people are born with a set amount of willpower, like anything else. It's shotgun genetics, man. Some people just aren't as resilient as others. It's the nature of the beast. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of choice so much as I am trying to establish that there are certain conditions we're born into that ultimately shape us. Nature vs. nurture is a meaningless debate since clearly both affect us.

    Eh, I guess. This is true by default, though. It's like saying "Everything that can be done can be done" in a way; but I get the gist of what you're trying to get across, and I agree, to an extent.
  17. i feel you on searching for truth.
    that, i feel it as a desperate need, its always nagging me. the truth.
    but simply put.
    i believe that all are equal.
    created equal that is.
    i think once you start truly emerging yourself in spiritual ways,
    you will truly begin to see that.
    if thats you thing of course
  18. No, men have never been created equal, physically in reality been equal, and I believe as a whole every man (and woman) will never be truly equal.

    There is always going to be a social hierarchy, people born with disabilities, and people who never reach their full potential for one reason or another.
  19. God didn't make men equal...

    Samuel Colt did. ;)
  20. Thanks to everyone for your wise words.


    I ask myself,

    Are me equal?

    And I realize that I don't know the answer.

    So what do I do?

    Post a thread... write some stuff down... and see where it leads...

    And it leads to this.

    "What do you want?"

    Do you want the anser to be YES, or do you want the answer to be NO?

    Since I don't know to begin with, it doesn't matter if the reality is YES or NO, but all that matters is how do I want to see this?

    Do I want to believe that men are equal?
    Or do I want to live my life, thinking that we are not equal?

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