Tough Question for Exp Growers. Calcium/Light/HLG LED

Discussion in 'First Time Marijuana Growers' started by SomeGuyNamedPaul, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. first timer here.
    day 4 of flowering.
    plants in fox farm soil (2gal fabric) Had a bunch of different seeds and decided to see what would happen.
    All about 14” - 21” tall.
    Fimmed half/Topped the other.
    HLG 260V2 at 100% 24” above tallest plant.
    HLG 100 at 100% in the front for supplemental light (a gift)
    rH- 45-48 temp- 75-76 F maintained 24/7
    emerald harvest nutes and calmag
    Terp Tea compost every other week.

    I watch my plants very closely and try my best not to succumb to new parent paranoia, but with any abnormalities I notice, I question my entire process.

    my primary issue are mild yellowing/lightly colored leaves, a couple plants have a few brown spots, and a few plants have smaaaaaall yellow/brown tips.

    Hours of research have led me to believe it’s a calcium deficiency or nute burn or light sensitivity. But I’ve been giving the highest dose of Roots Organic CALMAG
    (CA - 4.0% MG- 1.0% Sulfur 4.0%)

    things to consider, I ran out of Happy Frog (original soil) a few weeks back and as the plants grew, I topped off their fabric pots with a bit of Ocean Forest (that I was warmed may be “hot”).
    -why I’m thinking the tips turned Yellur-

    I had the plants at 18” under the lights until I read that these HLG leds are very intense light sources and even at the standard height recommendations, the light can be a bit much for plants.
    -why I’m thinking light burn-

    I also read that under “powerful” LEDs, a plant may require a substantially larger portion of CalMag than under HPS.
    -why I’m thinking that my plants are showing these signs-

    I have started a mild foliar spray (CalMag and Molasses) that I admin to tops and bottoms of leaves with an ultra fine mister right after lights OFF.

    Mild Yellowing on plant 1
    Yellow/Brown tips on plants 2 and 3
    Brown Spots on plant 2 (kinda) and majorly on plant 4
    Red/Purple EVERYWHERE on plant 4

    I have attached a few pics for reference.
    I am hella fastidious with these gals cuz this is my first time and I wanna do my best.

    if you can diagnose my probs, I’d greatly appreciate it. HAALLP!

    -Paul D.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. #2 theepopeofdope, Mar 4, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
    They don't look so bad. In the medium you've chosen you shouldn't be adding cal-mag because there should be no need. Most of the plants look just fine. The brown/yellow tips look like nutrient burn. If your plants aren't getting what they need and you're in good soil then there is more than likely a lock out situation.

    To make it simple, if I was growing in FF soil in pots, I might just add a 1/4 dose of all purpose organic plant food as needed. In the beginning that may look like every other water. I'd have to see the plant to evaluate.

    I would probably flush out the bad ones (plant 4), ease up on the nutes, and stop the foliar feed and cal-mag all together.

    * emerald harvest, terp tea. You've got some fancy stuff there. I think it's too much. My advice for a first timer as an old timer is to err on the side of simplicity. I've gotten my best results this way. My advice is get a simple all purpose organic fertilizer. Like hardware store grade Dr. earth 3-3-3 or something. Use a dilution of this and only this for the rest of the grow. You'll do fine.
     
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  3. I appreciate the response in its totality... you’re right, I’m very meticulous when it comes to this sorta alchemy bcuz it is a living consciousness that I’m assisting in development. Might’ve gone too far on “getting the right stuff”...


    but I’ve read in countless threads that those spots on plant 4 are due to calmag def. and I’ve gotten those spots and red/purpling display bcuz of it.

    Is there another way to deliver what’s necessary to that plant and others should they present with those spots and stem/petiole coloring?
     
  4. Actually just stumbled upon a thread that sorta talks about the damn HLG LED lights and the plants nuanced tendencies to respond to them.

    another person, like u, recommended to cut the calmag altogether. That’s scarin me but I’ll certainly give it a go.
     
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  5. HLG 260w led + Canna vega problems.

    Hey guys. For reference to others who may stumble upon this post, I found these two responses to be helpful


    “Ive been growing for over 20 years and just tried the hlg 260 well 2 of them in a 4x6 area to veg and tried a cheapish led that had a veg, bloom mixed spectrum, seems like I can keep that light 2 feet away and the same exact cuts are loving it, under the hlg 260's I had to put them up to 4 feet above to make what looked like deficiency's go away. they also burn a lot hotter then I would expect as well. My plants were showing signs similar to yours even at 2 feet above. def not a nute problem...”



    “had the exact same problem, dimming solved it. you could be at the upper limit of ppfd and the plant can't metabolize fast enough. the closer to the light the plant gets, the higher the par #'s are, and obviously the ppfd. maybe co2 would help, but raising the light and/or dimming would help in this situation. also, led's need higher ambient room temp to maintain optimal leaf surface temp for photosynthesis, than say a hps or mh light requires.


    check this link out: http://fluence.science/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/High-PPFD-Cultivation-Guide-9.27.16.pdf


    it has a ton of useful info for growing with led's. specifically it shows optimal temps and humidity levels to maintain optimal vapor pressure deficit for optimal nutrient uptake and just about everything one would need to know for environment requirements for good growth with led-only lighting for different ppfd levels. even though you may not have the sypderx light, the info is invaluable for all led growers.”
     
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  6. HLG LED lights are the best thing you could have bought for your personal grow setup. I wouldn't blame the light. I am speaking from experience.

    About the plants; They are definitely showing magnesium related deficiencies. This does not necessarily mean that there isn't enough magnesium in soil. Perhaps an imbalance of nutrients (eg: lack of nitrogen), could create similar symptoms. Although that's not likely the case here.

    About plant #4: The brown spots do not look like Mg deficiency to me. Mg deficiency starts out with the inner sections of leaves becoming lighter green, eventually making the leaf yellow followed by brown.
     
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  7. Thanks this can be useful

    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Grasscity Forum mobile app
     
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  8. Soil should have plenty of calcium. I can usually get to about week 3 before needing it in coco. That little spot is nothing could be a bug bite even. The light leaves looks like lack of nitrogen but if your feeding at even half recommended its not that. For awhile after i got my mars hydro ts1000 150w i had the light leaves. Then i realized its not bleaching its growing faster then before and new growth is light. If the same leaves are light after a couple days its not that. Im not a soil grower but maybe flush and make a simple batch of feed cut out the extras and the fancy stuff. Maybe try a nice ewc tea or chicken manure plants love itm

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  9. I’m going to go with the exact opposite and say you got a case of Excess Calcium causing lockout of Mg.

    You rarely run into Ca def in soil even with QBs. Especially with well nutrient feed that contains Cal and Mg. You also stated you have been adding Calmag every other week and then added max dose of roots organic cal mag AND foliage application of Cal Mag. I too often see this happen to new growers where the first yellow tip or spot is automatically diagnosed as Cal/Mg def.


    Calcium Toxicity

    Identification of calcium toxicity is much more difficult to identify visually, but since excessive calcium can lock out potassium and magnesium, a deficiency of these other nutrients is a quick way to potentially diagnose excessive calcium.

    source
     
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  10. #11 rollitup777, Mar 4, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
    It does seem like excessive calcium creating lockout but I am not convinced. There is still possibility of excess heat, not necessarily from light alone but perhaps poor air exchange which can lead to stomata close and burn spots, like the ones on plant #4. Just my speculation though...
     
  11. To keep things simple here, and referring to my previous comments, I've almost never had a problem growing in soil that wasn't caused by something I put in it. I've had myself, and seen from others, more problems with high powered bottled nutes than any other culprit. Delivering NPK and some trace minerals in soil should be as simple as frying eggs, we sometimes make it more complicated. Dilute, dilute, dilute, and use a balanced organic all purpose - it's the safe route.

    I agree with the lockout theories. There's no way there's not cal-mag in the soil, it was there to start with and the OP added it even, the problem is that the plant is protesting right now.

    As far as the light damage theory, I don't see it.
     
  12. So to summarize

    nix the added calmag indefinitely

    it’s advised that I flush with semi neutral pH water (with no added calmag)
    Then go with a tea a couple days after.
    And henceforth, use half dose nutes.

    any other trouble shooting suggestions?

    sorry guys.
    I’m hella new to this kinda indoor grow.
    Outdoor Vegetables are far easier to manage imho.
    Doing independent research online can lead ya down a wormhole of misinformation; especially seeing as how not many folks have published as much info on these types of LEDs as they have HPS and other light sources.
     
  13. It's been pretty well established that QB leds need added calmag. It has nothing to do with the medium and has everything to do with the intensity of the leds.

    I add 2ml of Calmag per gallon and on the odd chance I forget I notice it in the plants the next day.

    Goodluck

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  14. I think it’s bad advice to simply say using QBs requires you to add additional calmag. You really need to look at all the factors involved such as nutrients used, medium, environment and plant maturity. It’s advice like this that has led newer growers to add calmag when none is needed or to add too much making other symptoms worse.
     
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  15. I use small small amounts of it and im in coco. Like 2 drops a gal. But my old nutes are flushed out when i feed again.

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  16. again it depends on a few other factors.

    The first thing I notice is that your using coco so that right away is different then soil. Coco is more akin to hydro so adding additional cal mag MAY be needed but only if your base nutes do not contain any. Also at 2 drops per gallon that at most might add 10-20ppm to your TDS.

    what nutes are you using? What feeding schedule? DTW? Recirculated? Are you feeding all the time? Are you flushing? What kind of lights? Is the container shared with another plant? What’s your temps? RH? Stage of growth?

    those are things to consider
     
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  17. The thing you gotta understand mate is that deficits aren't just caused by a lack of something.
    If you add to much of certain things they block other things out. It also happens if your ph is off.
    So by giving too much calmag you can get cal def as the mag blocks it out.
    And if that effect knocks your ph out you'll also get mag def.
     
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  18. I agree. More times then not its ph related. Or if your in coco could ne ph and lack of cal mag or to much. Coco is great for controlling what your plants uptake. Someone told me to do a straight perlite grow and see what i think . might do it.

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  19. #20 Clearsky, Mar 4, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2022
    I've grown in promix and vermiculite with perlite and dolomite lime with a little gypsum, and have never bought calmag for my plants, using master blend 3 parts, I'm testing a plant right now in coco with RO water so I bought some calmagic Incase I needed it, but I don't need it. I've been growing this auto in a 3 gallon air pot with 20 percent run off just using maxibloom and it's growing nicely at 26 days old. Screenshot_20220304-134552.png
     

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