Hey-lo Everybody! So, I was searchin' around the organics section and I can't seem to find any consensus about top-dressing. So, I have some questions and hopefully it starts a discussion about this method of feeding the soil. What do you top-dress with? I've seen varying opinions for different stages of growth. On the list is definitely compost, EWCs, comfrey, nettle, kelp, and alfalfa. Are certain ones better for veg/flower? How much do you top-dress with? I've seen as little as 2-3 Tbsp up to a cup. With EWCs, I know up to a couple inches is great but for the botanicals/amendments, I know you'd want less. I imagine this varies depending on container size... Will the benefits be increased if a tea is made first, watered in, and then top-dressed with the dregs? Thanks! I hope the answers are helpful to the community. GM
I've been wanting to know this also, just to busy to search at the moment. I was assuming that if you make a tea and poor it on a top dressing that is about 3" away from the stalk that it would break it down. I also thought that the tea plus the amendments might be an over dose for the plants. I guess it is a question for the old heads, but I good one and I will totally learn something from the answer. Thanks op for posting! P.s. just make a weak tea( molasses and ewc) maybe?
The type of tea I would make for this would probably just be plant material and water, as laid out in excellent Botanicals thread Lookin' forward to the discussion
It's probably all subjective. I usually mix amendments (kelp, shrimpshell, rock dust, fishbone meal etc) in with ewc and or compost. Put it all in a freezer bag and shake shake shake. And I helped! I then sprinkle it on w a 1/3 measuring cup. I guess they get a cup or 2 each. I have read and experienced that this tends to harden as it dries. This also causes more water to flow over the edges and down the sides of containers. Next time I think I'll try using more botanical teas than top dresses. Anybody else have pennies to throw?
[quote name='"skunx818"']It's probably all subjective. I usually mix amendments (kelp, shrimpshell, rock dust, fishbone meal etc) in with ewc and or compost. Put it all in a freezer bag and shake shake shake. And I helped! I then sprinkle it on w a 1/3 measuring cup. I guess they get a cup or 2 each. I have read and experienced that this tends to harden as it dries. This also causes more water to flow over the edges and down the sides of containers. Next time I think I'll try using more botanical teas than top dresses. Anybody else have pennies to throw?[/quote] I know some people like to manually mix the topdressing into the top of the soil, even breaking up some of the top roots to do it. I would imagine this would help with the runoff, but honestly I've noticed the same thing. It takes a lot longer to water my plants now that I've top dressed. The water puddles on top more. I'd like to just use a super soil next season and it won't be a problem hopefully.
It IS subjective, ALL of it, from the ingredients to the amounts. You can get ideas and basic amounts/ingredients, but it is something you're going to have to learn on your own with experimentation and killing a few plants till you dial it in for your situation. That's just the way it is. For the hardening, not absorbing water aspect of it, use a wetting agent every now and then. *I* use a few drops of Ivory liquid. Aloe or coco wet or Dr.Bonners or whatever will work as well. Not every watering, you'll know when you need some. Wet
Thanks for the input, skunx/mjmama25! I'm thinking I may try teas/topdress with the dregs. wetdog While I agree that this is subjective to strain, container, environment, soil mix, etc. I definitely think there could be some agreed upon 'standards'. At least a 'start here, increase slowly' kind of guide assuming you have a well balanced organic soil. I don't think it should be necessary for someone to "kill a few plants" to learn how to top-dress properly. If you take a look at any other of the guides on botanical teas, FPEs, ACTs, etc. you see plenty of tested methods and recipes that have repeatedly work for many growers. I feel like that's what communicating knowledge is all about. Sharing your experiences/mistakes/successes so others can adjust accordingly and not have to suffer. As to the hardening, good tip on the wetting agent! I've used both Dr. Bronners and aloe with good success...both of which are also great in a pest prevention spray.
I usually topdress just before or just after making the switch to 12/12 schedule. And also when things start yellowing on me! Maybe if we mixed in an aeration component w our amendments/ewc topdresses ? An inch or 2 of castings a couple times each grow... Reusing the pots and soil. Not too many cycles before the pots all filled up.. Any thoughts?
I think wetdog was on the money about using a wetting agent to aid in pooling. If you haven't tried this, I do recommend it from personal experience. Personally, I have living clover in my #10 cloth pots, which seems to do a great job at distributing the water and breaking surface tension. Additionally, I read on here somewhere that the best way to prevent hardening/pooling is to keep the top of the soil at least a little moist at all times. This, of course may not be an option for everyone so adding something with a saponin (aloe, yucca) or a mild soap (I like Dr. Bronners) will help in reducing surface tension. As to the filling up of the pot, I would think a lot of that material is going to break down and "melt" into the rest of your soil. Definitely could be wrong on this.
So I top dressed with the suggested amount of Garden tone( still learning ) and water, water molasses , and then gave a tea and she started praying! Hope that's a good thing. She looks healthy I think. Guess the tea on top of top dressing is good so far. Can teas cause nute burn if all organic? Sry for the short noob post but I'm no where near you guys... Yet . P.s. comfrey sounds awesome!!
Lookin' good! Is this your first run? If so, it is SCORES better than mine. Just curious, what's the suggested amount of garden tone? You can definitely burn it if you are heavy handed on the amendments. Especially if your teas sit too long and start fermenting...then you are entering whole different realm.
You experiment and try stuff and you'll kill a few plants. Usually end up learning more from your mistakes than the successes. I just killed a couple of clones recently, mainly from having a 'senior moment'. Added a goodly amount of Espoma to a couple gallons of mix for transplant. Got distracted and added a second goodly amount. When the clones got transplanted, they were totally burnt up in 3 days. All was not lost though. I had decided to make up a top dressing mix for some veggies. My Espoma is getting low and I'm broke, but I have plenty of ingredients. What I did was: Take 3 party cups of soybean meal, 2 party cups of alfalfa meal, 1+ PC of bone meal, 3/4 PC of kelp meal and ~1 PC of granite dust. Mixed all this and added EWC till it *looked* right. Mixed some more. Then I added that 'hot' mix that burnt the clones up till it looked and felt good to me. Ended up with 4 gallons+. Split this into 2 buckets (makes it easier to work with) and moistened with molasses water, then sat aside. A week later it's cooled down enough to use. I'll apply some later today when it's cooler outside and we'll see how it works on a couple of plants. If I don't kill them, everybody will get some. Adding that hot mix might help with the hardening part of it. IDK, never done it quite like that. We'll see. Wet
^^^I like mixing my ferts with my vermicompost as Wet suggested above.^^^ It gets the microbes busy right from the get go and IME, when laid out as topdressing, it's got a biological nutrient boost.
[quote name='"Green_Manotaur"']Lookin' good! Is this your first run? If so, it is SCORES better than mine. Just curious, what's the suggested amount of garden tone? You can definitely burn it if you are heavy handed on the amendments. Especially if your teas sit too long and start fermenting...then you are entering whole different realm.[/quote] Nah this is my second go at it. Got 3 others. I'm learning everyday though! Thanks for the good praise man it's nice to hear it sometimes knowing I'm at least in the right direction. The recommended amount of garden tone is 1/4cup per container plant once a month I believe. In my tea I used : Molasses ( unsulfured blackstrap ) 1 1/2 cups ewc 1/4 cup of happy frog organic fert( kinda like garden tone) 7-4-5 4 drops of super thrive( I know not organic ) 60ml earth juice bloom 2 gallons of water # cut the tea with Distilled water had to add a nitro boost cause my critical + sensi star is nitrogen deficient and has some yellowing from the tips back on the bottom. Hope it helps cause the critical +ss is really wide and I don't wanna lose her! I like the fresh method of top dressing better but the ingredients are hard to come by in my part the world. Could order off the internet but I'm broke and don't have a card. Peace! Hope everyone had a good day!
Just a question, why the super thrive if you know it's not organic? the propose of your tea is to breed microbes but your super thrive is killing them
Super thrive is killing the microbes? I assumed the super thrive was just concentrated hormones and vitamins. Don't know how it is killing them. Got a nice film on top of the water I thought that was good. Tell me more about this microbe killing spree in doing as I haven't a clue. Thanks
[quote name='"gingerholic"']Super thrive is killing the microbes? I assumed the super thrive was just concentrated hormones and vitamins. Don't know how it is killing them. Got a nice film on top of the water I thought that was good. Tell me more about this microbe killing spree in doing as I haven't a clue. Thanks[/quote] Not trying to sound like a dick when I say this but it's the simplest way I can say it, if it's not 100% organic it has chemicals in it and like jerry told me, chemical kills life. Organic builds life