Top Dressed for Flower, Now She's Dying?

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by Absolem The Blue, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Hello fellow GC'ers. I'll try to keep this short and sweet.

    At around Week 3 of flower here. All organic, peat based mix. In the original mix I had peat, compost, perlite, EWC, kelp meal, fish bone meal, fish meal, shrimp & crab meal, gypsum, oyster shell flour, and glacial rock dust. She was growing wonderfully through veg. Switched to 12/12, and towards the end of the stretch (about a week or two) I had a couple yellowing fan leaves that were falling off. No big deal, as the flowering phase is beginning. These leaves were soft and yellow, no spots or warning signs on them. The only other thing I noticed was the dark green color beginning to lighten across the whole plant. Seeing as it was getting into flower, I didn't think much of it.

    I decided to top dress in some fertilizers to keep her happy during flower. She's in a 16 quart container, and I threw in a handful of Neem seed meal and alfalfa meal, and covered the surface of the soil (not sure on measurements, I think I used a few tablespoons worth of each). Then, I top dressed with EWC, added 3 or 4 tablespoons of kelp meal, a couple tablespoons of gypsum, and 3 tablespoons of Espoma's Tomato Tone. I spread it evenly across the soil surface and mixed it into the top inch or two.

    Information on Espoma's Tomato Tone (3-4-6):

    Total Nitrogen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0%
    0.2%. . . . Ammoniacal Nitrogen
    0.7%. . . . Water Soluble Nitrogen
    2.1%. . . . Water Insoluble Nitrogen
    Available Phosphate (P2O5) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.0%
    Soluble Potash (K2O). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.0%
    Calcium (Ca) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.0%
    Sulfur (S). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0%

    Derived from: Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized Poultry Manure, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Greensand, Humates, Sulfate of Potash, and Gypsum.
    *Contains 2.1% Slow Release Nitrogen.

    Moving on..

    It's been about a week since I top dressed. I water every 3 or 4 days, and I do not overwater - I usually stop before even a small trickle runs out of the container. Yesterday I opened the cab to see what looks like a nearly dead plant. The bud sites are still relatively okay. But nearly every leaf on the plant is suddenly crunchy, even the one's that are still green. There are yellow leaves showing necrosis, leaves that have crumpled up, leaf tips that go upwards, leaf tips that go downwards - everything is all over the place, and this seemed to happen rather quickly. Either there was ongoing problem already in the works, or I used too much fertilizers.

    I was so happy with how she was coming along, now I'm not even sure if she's going to make it. What do you guys take of it, and what do you suggest, if anything?

    Thanks everyone.

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  2. From personal experience, I'm looking real hard at the alfalfa meal and the EWC. That particular combo gets too hot to put your hand in. Just sheer luck I got distracted and didn't apply it. When I went to use it the next day ....YOW!

    Perhaps the neem and soluble N in the TT also, but I can only attest to the alfalfa with the EWC kicker.

    I imagine all you can do is wait and see if it pulls through or not.

    In any event ... Green Mojo sent your way.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. You topdressed far too much for such a little container.

    A tbs each of kelp, alfalfa, and neem would have been plenty.

    Sorry man you're gonna have to just try again.
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  4. Unless that is the absolute last bean you have I think El Rancho nailed it. Any part of the plant showing chlorosis is gone and will not revigorate. If you're dead set on trying to save it about the only thing you can do is take it out of the pot, knock most of the dirt off the root system and transplant it. That's a pure gamble and might also cause some harm.

    Looks like one for the compost pile @Absolem The Blue. :bongin::bongin::bongin:... better days :smoke:
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Sucks. It's been a few years since I've had one going, totally forgot about the 1/4 - 1/2 strength rule. When will I learn to just leave them alone like I do my vegetables!

    Thanks fellas.

  6. Hey wet, how's it going man? Rancho, Possum - thank you for the replies fellas. Yeah, I had a feeling I messed up by putting alfalfa directly into the container. Lost my aquarium pump so I just decided to mix some in. I'm sure the rates at which i applied the other things were too high as well. Did that combination really get that hot?

    I have to use storage containers in my cab as it's only 2.5 feet tall, which is why I used the 16 qt container. This go around was by far the best any girl of mine had been looking during veg, yet every time I get a couple weeks into flower it seems to start yellowing faster than it should. For next time, do you think you can help me with my mix? I have an entire vegetable garden so I have on hand:

    Peat Moss
    Lava Rock
    (I think I can handle making the base lol)
    Down to Earth Bio Live ( BIO-LIVE™ 5-4-2 )
    Kelp Meal
    Neem Seed Meal
    Alfalfa Meal
    Oyster Shell Flour
    Espoma Garden Lime (dolomite)
    Espoma Tomato Tone
    Glacial Rock Dust

    Think that's everything I have..

    I have 8 foot tomato plants but can't seem to keep mary happy worth a damn in these containers! Wish i could just go outside and stick it in the damn ground.
  7. If that plant is in a 16 qt container and you water every 3 to 4 days, I'm sorry...but you're keeping it too wet. No way that plant is big enough to use that much water that fast. If you can lift the container and feel ANY weight at all, it's not time to give more water. This should be a good lesson in using a recipe to feed by instead of tossing in this and that. You've given it too much of something and it's telling you how unhappy it is. Doesn't look dead and it will probably recover to some degree, but you've wasted valuable time stressing it and it will have to recover from the stress before it's back to 100%. It sounds to me like you mistook the normal shedding the plant goes through during flower...when it's using the sugars stored in the leaves and creating energy for the plant and is normal and happens to every plant you flower, for a problem that didn't really exist. I'm not big on recommending flushing plants because too often it can be dealt with otherwise, but you should consider a good flush here I think. If you are going to grow organically, you need to follow a proven recipe/system. The this and that you put into your plants are all essential elements and minerals the plants use and you need to know a specific mix to hit what the plant needs at any particular time. Chalk it up to experience.....and don't do it again. LOL Best of luck. TWW
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  8. Thanks for your response! It seems like EVERY time I get into flower, I notice some yellowing and think "alright, this is normal" and then a couple of weeks later end up with a Ca/Mg issue, and the yellowing crunchiness spreads to "sugar leaves" instead of just some fan leaves yellowing evenly and falling off. Maybe I've been constantly watering too much this whole time.

    The only couple of times I've gotten great results were while using chem nutes. I've since botched 3 or 4 organic grows. Looking at my garden, I know I can do it. I just need to stop doing stupid things and treating Mary like she needs 10,000% more than the vegetables do.
  9. I'm pretty sure we can walk you through a harvest. Are you talking 2.5 ft including lights and soil?
  10. #10 Absolem The Blue, Jun 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
    There's about 17" from the top of the container to the bottom of the CFL's, in their highest position. Cab has a floating floor due to it's passive intake setup. I usually LST them which has given me 4-6" colas.

    Cab specs (internal):

    19" Long
    19" Wide
    20" High (from floor to bottom of CFL's in their highest mounting position)
    120CFM Exhaust w/ DIY carbon scrubber
    4 23W (100w equiv) CFLs (daylight and soft white for veg/flower)

    I can fit two 16 qt storage containers side by side in the cab. Any kind of traditional "pot" basically kills my height capabilities.

    Thank you for being willing to help!
  11. he didnt even mention how much he waters so how can you make that conclusion that its too much? maybe he waters a cup of water every 3-4 days?
    and on top of that you suggest he FLUSHES AN OVER-WATERED PLANT? seriously man use your noodle, if its overwatered as you claimed flushing will be the last nail in the coffin...

    btw im writing this for others to see, we all know you never respond to replies...
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Hey Scoob. Someone on another forum said I was overwatering as well. I wonder if they're saying that because of the way some of the leaves are curling downwards. I usually stop watering before any water even trickles out the bottom. When I topdressed, however, I did give it a thorough watering.
  13. The height issue makes things really tough man.

    Any way you can improve that?
  14. I *could* make a bigger cab, but honestly I most likely won't until I get a good grow out of it - you know, without me screwing it up. I know a lot of other people grow in PC cases (I used to) and cabs similar to mine. I'm not going for anything huge, micro-grows are fine for me. I generally top the plant once or twice, and start LST'ing towards the edges of the containers, which usually works well. It's the whole "me killing htem" thing that's a problem LOL.
  15. iMO that doesn't look like over water damage. It's similar because the plant does look like It's not getting hydrated enough. it looks like your leaves are wilted more then they are clawed which would suggest damaged roots, but that's probably due to heat from the amendments and not from anaerobic soil and root rot which is what happens when you over water.
  16. A Gro Pro 20 gallon fabric square pot is 17" cube. You can cut or roll the sides down so it's not so tall.
  17. I definitely agree. I learned not to overwater a long time ago, and how important it is to let the medium fully dry out before giving more water.

    Awesome! I will check that out, thank you very much Scoob.

    Well - she's just about dead. Any density that remained in the forming buds is pretty much gone, everything is dried up and thin now. Poor thing :(

    Fortunately, I do have a backup seedling. I pray to the green gods that it's not a male.

    I'm going to get the soil ready for the seedling's final pot. How much kelp, alfalfa, and neem do you guys suggest I use? I will do a search too, but seeing as some of the greatest organic growers have responded right here, I figured I'd ask! Thanks guys
  18. What soil recipe are you using?
  19. I listed what ingredients I have above - care to help me create a recipe? I just picked up a fresh bag of Dr. Earth's Vegetable Garden Soil. I used it as a base on the grow I made this post about, and it did WONDERFULLY during veg. I have my potted veggies and herbs in this mix, and combined with some other amendments, they are exploding.

    Here's what I have on hand:

    Coco Coir (thought I had peat moss, I have coco)
    Lava Rock
    (I think I can handle making the base lol)
    Down to Earth Bio Live ( BIO-LIVE™ 5-4-2 )
    Kelp Meal
    Neem Seed Meal
    Alfalfa Meal
    Oyster Shell Flour
    Espoma Garden Lime (dolomite pellets)
    Espoma Tomato Tone
    Glacial Rock Dust

    I'll attach some pics of the Dr. Earth "Home Grown Vegetable Garden Mix"

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  20. #20 Absolem The Blue, Jun 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
    How does this sound:

    Base Mix: Dr. Earth soil mix - 1 cubic foot
    (plus some fresh compost, EWC, and lava rock, if it needs it)

    Nutritional Amendments:

    1/2 cup Kelp Meal
    1/2 Cup Neem Seed Meal
    1/2 Cup Down To Earth Bio Live (for crustacean meal)


    3 Cups Glacial Rock Dust
    1/2 Cup Garden Lime (Dolomite)
    1 Cup Oyster Shell Flour

    Think I should scale back the kelp, bio-live, or dolomite at all because of what's already in the Dr. Earth mix, or should I be good?

    I'm gonna get a new aquarium pump so I can do EWC/kelp/alfalfa teas as well.


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