Or since the ONLY way to know for sure is to have a sample tested under extreme magnification (as in its early stages) it resembles a slew of pest/nute problems, then the vigorous growth rate will make it appear as if you've "fixed it" only to find, once its too late it WAS HMV or other mosaic virus. I agree with Sam that people HAVE gone off and thrown perfectly good girls away without proof. If you have a doubt, segregate the suspicious character, then spend the $75 bucks for the test. Standard pictures cannot be used to determine mosaic infection unless it is in full swing. By then its way too late, and yes seed banks have become a source as the virus is also carried in the pollen which then infects the seeds. Too many people thought it was a hoax till too late. Now all we have to do is figure out something the tobacco companies have been working on since the late 1800's. Find a cure. Simple.
Yeah, thats what I was kind of thinking. I still hae to try and save what I can to make the Holy Annointing Oil as they found epithelial cancer cells in the crap I coughed up last year when I had pneumonia. I've been decarboxylizing the oil converting the THC, and taking 1.5 grams a day. Tried chemo for Hep-C, stuff damn near killed me, and didn't work. Thanks Richard, I'll try that on my next go. I've got some seed from a private breeder that should be clear to start with. Did you ever try out that MApro? Gotta go, its late here and I've been trimming for two days straight with a massive storm front supposed to hit tonight, so I better get my butt to bed! Thanks again, Brother. God Bless! Vinny
I'm convinced I had a genetic mutant, not a virus. No signs of the bleaching or slow growth in over 100 seedling progeny from the cross I made with the original plant and an unrelated male. I'm going to flower some of the F1's, select, and cross to see if I get the expected 1/4 mutant phenotype in the F2 generation for confirmation of a simple recessive mutant. It was a bit scary but lead to some fun playing amateur geneticist. I know this isn't much help for anyone with a real virus problem, but I'm convinced that I had a genetic mutation in the original seed I purchased. As far as I know no other Female Seeds Grapefruit has been reported with this, so I just got really lucky with the second recessive mutation. GG
Anyone know where the original pics are for this post. Just curious to see them. From my research, there are so many other issues that easily crop up on indoor operations that TMV seems to catch a lot of grower attention, when it is something far more common and fixable. So many problems have such similar symptoms that it is very easy to misdiagnose a problem when growing inside. I personally have been through the freak out and about to toss everything I had, but as I continued to research and research, it was a vitamin deficientcy. All I'm trying to say is There are a lot of issues that you will have to contend with. With myself being a little bit of a lazy gardner, I have seen many issues. Many LOOKED like a lot of things. You also have to consider that the Internet is the main form of communicating for growers of this type. That being said, any issue has to be filtered due to the fact that most growers are amateurs, not scientists, and opinions start flying. As if the Internet is not bad enough already lol. Wading through many opinions can get crazy confusing and sometimes mis-leading. I have been down that road more than a few times, and I bet most of us in this particular realm have been. As far as TMV, I personally think most TMV cases are HMV when it comes to these plants. If anyone has a good chance of getting it, it's me. And I haven't had it yet, as far as I can tell. I sometimes chew tobacco to prevent smoking craving when working in the garden. Main reason I made this post was to say this. If you are an anal neat freak that puts on a protective suit to enter the grow room, you prolly know your shit. Therefore if you see symptoms that resemble the big V, then check it out. The industry depends on growers of your caliber to ID these things. If you are like me, and just keep things as clean as possible, but have to run a normal life too, chances are your sick girls are sick from something MUCH more common. Do not start on TMV as a possible culprit because chances are its something else. I personally need to be cleaner and find myself attempting, but when you are running late and need to check them to make sure there alive or whatever, I'm not going to put a bio suit on, booties, spray disinfectant on my to go in and say ''well they pump is still working, ph is fine, and they ain't dead, the res temp is.....shit...I gotta go''. Hope this made sense. The biggest thing is be honest with yourself as to what kind of Gardner you are. If you do that, diagnosing is made a lot easier.
Yep, Born420, you're right with respect to the recent explosion of Mosaic Viruses now infecting agricultural and textile crops globally in iy's early stages DOES resemble a whole range of other issues from pests to Ph and darn near everything in between, in most cases it used to be less often a form of MV. However, it is imperative to have any suspect plant(s) tested. The test strips provided by a number of companies are very inexpensive and quite reliable. The reason actual testing is critical is two-fold: In it's early stages it is analogous to Fibromyalgia or Lupus in that it can "appear" asa host of things we often have seen before, so we treat them to correct the issue and boom! It's fixed! Growing beautifully. Here's the danger point. Even an infected plant, during the veg state will grow much faster than the virus can replicate, so it will nearly always look as if the problem in solved, until (if you're very lucky) approximately 5 weeks into flower, then species dependent the plant simply burns up from the bottom up, slowing flower growth and resin production, and now, any bit of microscopic matter from pollen, to sap to surface area is highly contagious with a plant pathogen that can lie dormant for 60+ years, and requires total sterilization or replacements of everything ever used. I didn't have my "zinc deficiency and root gnat" problems tested until too late and lost not only over 60% of my medical strains and lost my 3-stage grow room. If you have ANY doubt, about $50-$70 U.S. for the test strips, is NOTHING compared to the potential damage, especially if clones, cuts, or seeds are produced from an infected "parent" and with the best of intentions could have a devastating impact on an entire medical "community" but before anyone (especially newer growers) tosses out a crop of quality medicine, GET IT TESTED! Then in the unlikely event your garden is infected you will know for certain. This is also important because there are some things that can be done early on to "slow it down" and get a better yield, even with the virus. Lastly, especially for our newer "apprentices" this virus has NO CURE!!! It has been around since the 1800's, originating with tobacco, then spreading through food, grain, textiles and herbs and flowers too. If a cure was or is discovered it will make global headlines, guaranteed! So don't go for the snake oil guys who've got a cure for only (whatever your fear will allow for) plus shipping and handling. .
I read the MSDS, seedling and early veg only...haven't heard much. If it was safe and effective I think we'd be hearing a lot more about it.
This is very good information.^^^ Products like RNA Pro will mask the symptoms of the disease, but as others have stated, there is no cure. All growing areas need to be disinfected and any soil growing infected plants must be removed and not used in the grow area again. Visual inspection is not adequate for diagnosis, a testing product must be used to confirm Moasic virus. PW
you need to understand that a mosiac virus is only a "type" virus. a mosiac virus has a very, VERY distinct appearance: MOSIAC PATTERNING. that is how the virus received its name. if there is no visible mosiac pattern when things take a turn for the worst, than it is not a mosiac virus. Tobacco Mosiac Virus was the first virus ever discovered by mankind & is probably the most researched and well understood virus out there. anyways, there are alot of factors that may have ill effects on a plant (extremely warm grow rooms, nute burn, nutrient deficiencies, root-boundness, light bleaching, etc......) which will make it appear "sick." and these are only technical difficulties. bug problems can make plants appear sickly, too. Spider mite damage can appear as a mosiac virus to the untrained eye. thrips are probably the most destructive pest out there, and the damage they do REALLY makes plants look like they have an extremely destructive "mosiac virus." than there are the common pathogens that effect plants which can cause confusion (pythium, rhizoctonia, etc.) TMV is such a rare disease. ohio state university's last documented TMV infection (for the main campus & satellite campuses) was in the 70's. only one infectious outbreak in the past 30-40 years among thousands and thousands of plants every year with students and visitors alike coming in daily contact with the greenhouses. i have never actually seen TMV in person. I have seen mosiac patterning on leaves of my plants before, but i did not think "oh no, TMV!" with so many different types of microscopic viruses out there, i am 100% sure that we do not know of every single virus/prion on the face of this planet. and as humans, we usually dont take notice of something unless it is destructive & deadly. so if you see something that may resemble TMV on your HEALTHY plants, wait to see what happens. chances are that if one plant has it, every one you have came in contact with it does as well. again, TMV is so rare. it is highly unlikely someone will contract a mosiac virus in their garden. who knows? maybe theres a few extremely weak mosiac viruses floating around out there that do nothing but cause strange patterning on one leaf for a week. like i said, us as humans wouldnt really bother to care about researching something not destructive. we would test it, say "nope, it didnt test positive for any of the major diseases," and go on with our life happily because of a negative test result. look, im no expert by any means. I may have some experience and education, but i really dont spend any time studying the TMV virus. i learned what i was taught by people with PhDs, and i try to pass the information forward. we spent weeks studying viruses and i can tell you that nothing i have seen in the past few pages resembles TMV. its a very rare virus. like ive stated before, there are alot of different things that can cause mosiac patterning. like when a plant gets a cold virus. FYI there is no cure for any virus known to man, whether it be a virus that effects insects, plants, animals, fungi, etc. viruses are non living which makes them hard to cure. you guys need not to spray all of these ridiculous treatments to try to treat TMV. they will not prevent nor cure the disease. whether it be asprin or some crazy carcinogen that requires a haz mat suit for use (what kind of a jackass would use that on their plants, anyways? ) thats like building a wall of feathers to try and stop a freight train. stupid. im not calling anybody out, i just get disgusted as to the fear the MJ world puts into things to turn profits. like purposely deteriorating people's health by recommending a chemical that the EPA would strongly suggest to not even use on ornamentals. please dont take offense to this post. but the madness around TMV needs to stop. im not saying go wild. be smart. wash your hands before touching valuable plants. especially after touching tobacco products (cigarettes count). but the chances of one actually catching the TMV are slim to none. if ones plants look like shit than they need to re-analyze their methods & environment. if no definite conclusion can be made, than i would suggest having someone with alot of experience in growing (pot or whatever) have a gander at your plants. you run a much higher risk of getting bugs than TMV. i mean, i find aphids on my lettuce from the grocery store, spider mites on strawberries from the farmer down the road, and thrips on flowers i bring home to Ms. Handwich. pests are the biggest transmitters of pathogens. chances are that if you dont have & never had a pest problem, you dont have TMV. so keep your plants healthy and fed/watered well. Keep them pest free. stress free. temperatures should be around 75F & not ever exceeding 80F under any circumstances. dont let them wilt (this causes ALOT of problems & a big weight reduction IMO). and you should be okay.
Ok, I am done trying to explain this over and over. The mosaic-type virus can ONLY be ruled out by testing. Aglia makes simple contact strips for about 12-15 (US) each. The mosaic types do not ALL have the classic mosaic pattern (see: Yellow Stripe Bhendi Virus which all but wiped out India's okra (Bhendi) crop) and in EARLY stages resemble a host of possible (and more probable) issues. Cannabis grows far faster in veg than the virus can replicate so it may appear the knowledge, effort and advice of your seasoned grower worked like a charm. Until flowering. I had my outdoor medical grow become infected. I tried all the tricks of the trade and bam! Growing beautifully, until 4 weeks into flower. Lost approximately 80% of total harvest. Bought strips for testing. All plants positive for mosaic. 4 years later, tried outside 50 yards from old site and in elevated containers. Re-infected every one, after all new gear. Saved about 45% of (early) harvest. Suspect plant? Get it tested! Work on what is probably the problem, while getting the test. IF the quarantined suspect is infected follow the protocols in this thread from others who have had a type of mosaic. This is also a mutagenic virus, which means once infected the DNA/RNa of the virus affects every part of the plant including making seed. If nobody is willing to read the whole thread, then they are not serious about the GLOBAL effects. Hang on...gotta turn around. Almost fell off the side of the flat earth! lol
I am also wondering if this is what my plants have.. i couldnt view any pics in this thread but i googled it and saw the same spotting ;( Thats all different leaves from one plant, four have this and the it started with one as a seedling i took for cal/mag def cuz of other discolorations. Went down the row to each plant. Ffof soil t8s good temp/hum always, sanitize/change clothes before going near them as i smoke cigs.. this has been bothering me for 3 weeks and i cant find any info that fits.
What do you guys think? Virus or ph lockout? ? I got them veggin in ffof no nutes under a t5. 70-75 degree range 50-70% rh. Started all from seedlings. 2 plants were showing this. One much more, the other one cleared up. Help blades!Sent from my LG-D801 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
so whats the hooked leaves where half is white? figured ph or something cause i get them sometimes and sometimes just a few hooked leaves
looks like over watering causing lockout..your leaves have lots of creases in them which means over watering
Hi. I'm new to growing. I've been doing some research and Tobacco Mosaic Virus seems to be the cause of my plants looking the way it is. It's in it's 4th week going to 5th soon and it's the size of my thumbnail. It's growing super slow. I was told it should've been a lot bigger by now. Can anyone help and look over the photos i've posted and comment please? The first couple photos is in tent #1 and looks like shit. The last two is in tent #2 and is becoming to look like the tent #1. Tent #1 is in rockwool and has aphids. lots of them. Tent #2 is in coco and has no aphids. still the flower is very small as you can tell from photo. Ph 5.8 ppm 400 before nutes ppm 1000-1150 after nutes not counting the water ppm climate is 76-80 humidity is 54 when lights are on. 61 when lights are off. light cycle is obviously 12on 12off
Though actual MV's (whether they be any of the sub-types) used to be very rare, lack of education has increased the incidence of viral infections in cannabis. That being said, it is STILL more rare than the usual pest/problem and more than likely NOT TMV or its cousins, however...if you're willing to take the risk and NOT test suspect plants by all means don't. In my case, I didn't, it was an MV (TTMV) and since there is NO cure for the plant itself, I lost a whole lot of medicine. I did find out something at an extraction lecture, I never knew. I had been researching (skeptically) these "cures" etc for TMV, and had run across the sanitation, hand-washing, touching plants after rolling tobacco etc., but I never knew even the tobacco smoke residue that gets on the walls, ceilings, hanging or shelved clothes or smoke in the air can carry the virii. I have been washing everything in the house for weeks now, and trying to quit tobacco entirely. Also, failing miserably. Anyhow, I know I usually keep my babies in the house till they get a good start and growth rate, but since I still smoke, and know quite a few others who do the same, I thought I would share this with those who ARE aware of the growing MV problem. I started keeping a complete set of "gardening clothes & accessories" in a shop no-one smokes in, then glove up & change before going into a small DIY baby station. So far that seems to have helped, but because I DIDN'T test for any of the MV's, and DID have Tobacco-Tomato Mosiac Virus infected outdoor plants (I had taken cutting from indoors) I'll NEVER be able to grow outside again, and there's no way I can afford either the equipment or risk exposure to any of the compounds that CAN kill TMV for sterilization of equipment, rooms and the like, but before even thinking about forking out harder-and-harder to come by resources for any "vaccines" or "cures" for the plants, be ASSURED NO PRODUCT CAN KILL THESE VIRII FROM THE PLANTS THAT WOULDN'T KILL YOU. IF THERE IS ONE DEVELOPED IT WILL MAKE GLOBAL HEADLINES!!! Until then, don't waste your money. If you are concerned, please remember the ONLY way to be certain is to test them. Period. Pics will not work. I had a couple tested plants that i took pics till the end, but I took them down after hearing the dozens of "other" things it was, even though I told folk's this plant was tested. Anyhow, I'm beginning to think we need to somehow pare this thread down, as I see post after post after post asking the same questions, all scared as heck, when it really boils down to 1-it's real, 2. many types 3 testing only way to tell and 4 no cure safe for humans. Joe started one heck of an important thread for those whose lives depend on cannabis-based medicine, that somehow got diluted. I don't even know if it can be, but if anyone has the time and takes the effort to read the entire discussion, virtually everything you need to know is in it. But it will take some time and more to check out each claim yet a pattern develops and you will recognize the guys who really do know their stuff.
Looks like I am going to have to throw out my clone mothers. Does anyone know why the original pictures are gone? Thanks!!
Lol I just spent the past hour reading about this on different sites. I've had plenty of the same symptoms as the pics I've seen posted, so figured I'd keep reading. Then it just got out of control. Every little mark on a leaf is posted with people pleading for help. What I'm trying to figure out is, I get 8-12 oz per plant( depending on strain) , lol so you people that are flipping out about this virus saying I'd get a pound or two "if I didn't have it "?