Thomas Jefferson

Discussion in 'Politics' started by bobwha, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. How do you think Thomas Jefferson would react to the United States as we are now?
     
  2. I'd like to pose another question.
    How "pure" were our founding fathers?

    Imagine a 24 hour news cycle in the 1700s. what kind of dark secrets, back room dealings, and profiteering was done by the signers of the deceleration of independence. think about how much there was to gain with independence or the laws laid down in the constitution and what kind of effect they had on the current economic climate.

    These were rich ass men with nothing but time on their hands. So, the question is not what would TJ think of our time, what would you think of TJs time?
     
  3. Well I don't know man.. I wasn't really talking about Thomas Jefferson's time.. I was talking about how he would personally feel.. Not the way people of his time would.

    I don't know much about him.. So maybe he was corrupt or what you're saying.. but what I have read seems like what he stands for freedom.. obvious i know.. but moving on... lol.. It seems like a lot what he talks about is corrupt government.. what he describes sounds very much like the country we live in. He believes in a nation where people control the government.. not the other way around.

    Pretty much I'm guess he'd be pissed but I think he would know that our country would turn into something like this.. But I think he would say it's time for a revolution. To over throw the government as is..

    What do you think he would think?
     
  4. The Founding Fathers, including Jefferson, risked their lives as Patriots, fighting for the freedom that we enjoy - including the free speech that we have on this board. If they had been captured, they wouldn't have been treated as simple prisoners of war, most of them would have hung. To the people who are under the impression that Thomas Jefferson was some kind of sleazy, lazy, dirty-dealing, politician: Get a book or two on the man, they're free in the library. You'd be surprised at what you don't know.
     
  5. You can't fuck with TJ.

    "I rip it hardcore like porno-flick bitches." - Thomas Jefferson
     
  6. #6 prez420, Jun 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2010
    Lets let one of our founding fathers Thomas Jefferson answer your question for himself.

    "There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." -Thomas Jefferson

    "When a man assumes a public trust he should consider himself a public property." -Thomas Jefferson

    You try to make the founders of America sound like sleaze balls but the reality is much different our founders would have been all for the inner workings of government being public knowledge. So at least take some time and learn what these great men really thought before you start slandering them. Never forget these very same men you are slandering are the men that put freedom of the press in constitution in the first place. To farther illustrate that our founders would have been the first to stand up for freedom of the press here is a quote from good ol George Washington the only president in the history of the USA to win a election with 100% of the vote.

    "Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light." -George Washington

    As for the OP's question. I think Thomas Jefferson would be the first one in line to start revolution if he felt that hope of changing the government via elections is lost.

    "For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people." -Thomas Jefferson

    "The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive." -Thomas Jefferson

    As you can see from the above quotes Thomas Jefferson has no problem telling government to f*ck off when necessary. I bet alot of people are confused by that because he was one of the people that created the government. He believed that the true power lays with the people of America not the government of America and the only way to make sure government remembers that is for the population to have a gun pointed at the government at all times so the government never forgets who is in charge. So yeah Thomas Jefferson would be for a 2nd revolution if he felt there was no other way to rein in government.
     
  7. He was certainly a hypocrite about certain things...

    He allegedly had relations with his own slave which could be seen as rape to some. I mean the fact that he owned people is hypocritical.

    His words are great though, and I honestly believe it was because of his time that he seems so hypocritical.

    This is all coming from someone who has a ton of respect for the man and his ideas, he is in my signature for Christ's sake.
     
  8. Thomas Jefferson was accused during his life, by enemies, of having a secret relationship with a female slave, Sally Hemmings. At the time he was old, sick with dysentery, and not the type of personality that was prone to be a philanderer. There were dozens of Jefferson men in the area where Sally Hemmings was, since Thomas had many nephews, who could have fathered her child. It is clear, through DNA testing of Hemmings' male descendants, that something sexual was going on between Sally Hemmings and a Jefferson, but whether it was Thomas is impossible to know at this stage of the story's development. Personally, I wouldn't care either way if he was, but I doubt he was her lover.

    There are no male descendants of Thomas, as his sons did not live till adulthood, so the male DNA for the tests had to be collected from descendants of Thomas' brother(s) - and this DNA would be the same as his, passed down by his nephews for several hundred years.
     
  9. Yeah I mean I said 'allegedly,' I don't really know what his relationship with Sally was like, and honestly I don't really care because even if he did have relations with her, they may have been consensual.

    He still owned people. I mean like I said, he has great ideas and I have more respect for him than probably any of the other founding fathers. Some of the things Jefferson said are so profound and have taken me a long time to fully understand.
     
  10. or so you've been told. Im not sayin that there were other motives than the one we know about. but think about EVERYTHING that happens today. someones always got an anterior motive. but the winners of wars write history.
     
  11. also, OP, sorry if i hijacked ur thread. i was mad high and thats the thought that came to mind when i read ur post.
     
  12. But we know what their motives were and we can see that in the limited government they devised and the prophecies they foretold.

    They didn't use doublespeak or buzzwords back then, they debated on principle not emotion. We have written records of it all... look to the Federalist v Anti-Federalist debates to see their motives.

    Do you have any reason for thinking this other than the current course of politics? What do you think Jefferson's motives were?
     

  13. What exactly is "an anterior motive"?
     
  14. #15 MrGers, Jun 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2010
    ulterior, my bad

    OK so it's settled, the founding fathers didn't really seek to profit from the formation of the country, they just wanted freedom, cool.

    To answer OP i guess, TJ would prolly have a lot to say about our limited "freedoms" and the something about how our country seems to be hemorrhaging money. Though i think the constitution says something about not having a national currency other than gold. so i bet he'd say something about the ole central bank, but that was Alex Hamiltons deal...i think
     
  15. Hamilton created our first central bank, Jefferson was its largest enemy.
     
  16. EXactly.
     
  17. On account of the fact that Thomas Jefferson swore eternal hostility against all forms of tyranny over the mind of man, I think its safe to say he'd be pretty pissed with what we've let America become.
     

  18. This.

    Franklin viewed Jefferson and Paine as like sons to him.

    We should return to what our founders believed.
     
  19. Thomas Jefferson, ahead of his time by leaps and bounds, refers to Native Americans performing abortions:

    "They [Native Americans] raise fewer children than we do. The causes of this are to be found, not in a difference of nature, but of circumstance. The women very frequently attending the men in their parties of war and of hunting, child-bearing becomes extremely inconvenient to them. It is said, therefore, that they have learnt the practice of procuring abortion by the use of some vegetable; and that it even extends to prevent conception for a considerable time after."
    Jefferson, Thomas, 1743-1826
    Notes on the State of Virginia
     

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