Here’s my plant. It’s a Grease Monkey, I believe it was a clone, but not sure. My friend gave it to me. It was never the most healthy looking plant (it had powdery mildew earlier on), but it really seems to have gone down hill recently. The leaves seem pale green, close to yellow. Obviously a little twisted. I’ve been letting it dry out (nearly) in between each watering. Feeding with ferments / homemade nutrients following the KNF / Natural Farming principles. If you don’t know what that is, it’s basically a lot of ferments. Dandelion extract, aloe extract, fish extract (for N and Amino Acids), garlic, ginger, cinnamon extract (to control pathogens) Lactobacillus serum (to help break down organic matter) Carrot Extract (for K). I’ve been pHing every feeding and watering keeping it between 6.5-7.0. It was loving it, as is the one clone I’ve managed to get off of her still is, then all of a sudden it went south. There’s no smell on her, she’s pale and twisted, found caterpillar eggs on her today, so something tells me she’s it’s really unhealthy. I really need to keep her alive though, even if only as a mother plant. Any advice helps. I’ve tried everything I can think of. I also transplanted her into this 10 gallon (I think) pot last night and top dressed with 6 tsp of Espoma All Purpose Plant Tone, worked it in lightly, and then mulched with this decaying leaf material I found. First pic is the mama plant that Im asking for help with This is the clone I mentioned. Came off of the mama plant, getting the exact same treatment. Maybe not perfect looking, but shes way greener and smellier than the mama Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
Whats your soil mix? Are you using KNF methods on other plants with success? It looks like the plant is not happy with SOMETHING. I would try to stop all the feedings and teas and just give it water for a couple of week, see how it reacts. If it starts to look better i would perhaps continue with just water and tomato tone top dress if required. Then when its healthy looking start adding back your KNF routing but do it one at a time, and give the plant a few weeks to see how it reacts before adding another element to the routine. This is the only way you will know if there is a problem with one of your inputs.
So for the time being, my whole super soil I plan kind of fell through. So I was using Kellogg’s patio plus top dressed with worm castings. Far from the best, I know, but there were several other plants and they all look fine. I ran out of money fast. Yes, I’ve grown several others using the KNF inputs with great success. The baby clone I posted the picture of is actually in plain Kellogg’s right now getting KNF inputs every watering and she’s loving it too. There were others too that went crazy over it, but my friend took those back. When I transplanted the mama into the 10 gallon, I mixed Kellogg’s with this stuff called Gardner’s Top-Soil. It’s supposedly a mix of chicken manure and compost. It smells very sweet, like a forest floor. I assume pretty fungi-dominant. I’ll try that with the watering. Do you think it would be beneficial to at least add the LAB serum so perhaps the plant tone topdress would break down faster? And also - should I continue to pH my water? My water is hard, about 8.5. If so, what’s a good way to lower the pH organically? Maybe a living vinegar? Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
Vinegar is a herbicide, use citric acid to lower PH if you must. Personally I would refrain from adding anything but water at this point. since you have added some and top dressed with castings there should be enough nutrients already. I know you want to do as much as you can to help the plant but IME doing less is usually better.
So like lemon juice? I know acetic Acid in heavy concentrations is an herbicide, but I’m assuming there must be some difference between, for example, white / distilled vinegar and brown rice vinegar / banana vinegar. There are several inputs that are used in KNF that are based from these vinegars. The dilution is always 1:1000, so it’s VERY diluted, many people grow many things using those practices with great results. But I’ll definitely use citric Acid just to be safe. I imagine I wouldn’t want to add any more than necessary. Like i said, the bigger plant is really meant to be a mother plant anyways, so I’ll do whatever it takes just to keep her alive and get her healthy again. I’ll stick to pH’d water for now until she comes around. One other question - I mentioned caterpillar eggs. Would it be okay to spray her down with neem, or should I just try to pick them all off and wait til she’s healthy to spray her? Thanks again for all the advice so far, I appreciate it. Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
might want to get something specific for caterpillars, idk if neem will help. lemon isnt very acidic, you will have to add alot and im not sure thats a good idea. (its also loaded with sugar)
For sure. Maybe some BT pesticide? I remember having something made by Safer in the past... Video doesn’t display, but I can do some research. I was wondering, would you say it looks nitrogen deficient? Just curious Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
I would also go easier on your watering, them massive purple if on your stem and the bumpy saggy leaves tell me maybe your watering too often. Looks like you drowned the roots hairs, or you fed them very hot, Grab a ppM meter and check your run off. Best luck on your next grow.
Yea, well like I said I’ve been using the same watering schedule and feeding frequency on 2 other plants right now, they are both doing fine. Only thing I can think of is like you said, perhaps a bombardment of nutes. Read on a Reddit post that someone successfully used KNF inputs “every watering. Since the feeding solutions are really so “weak”, I figured it wouldn’t be an issue. I think I’ll stick with straight water for a while, and if / when I start adding the inputs again I’ll ease it back to once every watering, AT LEAST. A few months ago I was taking care of some OG Kush plants for a friend, and I believe I was giving them 3 waterings per week, total, and only one of those were feedings. As someone said earlier on in this thread, it’s very hard to resist the temptation of the whole “more is better” mentality. I’m not a noob to this, I’ve got a couple grows under my belt. This is just my first grow since switching to KNF principles. Besides all that with the feeding schedule / frequency, the only thing thing that has happened is at one point, right before she started looking ill, my friend absolutely DOUSED her with GreenCure (Potassium Bicarbonate). A decent amount dripped down into the soil. I know that stuff is really high on the pH scale, so maybe it caused some kind of swing? Regardless, I’m not giving up on her just yet. Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
Each plant is different. Can be many factors that can change it up. I would test your ppm run off to see how hot the soil is. All base nutrients are more or less the same, less your using some off brand not really meant for cannabis stuff. Simplest way is to lift the pot up and feel their weights. Get used to it being heavy and light. Soil you want it dry as possible. You need to allow oxygen to get in, other wise the roots will drown and the root hairs will die. Making it look like a nutrient deficiency, when really the plant can not uptake any thing because the root hairs are gone. More or l ss every nutrient brand meant for cannabis has all the essential things needed if not way more then they need. Knf inputs? And all good, I been there more is good. But you learn
I really never overwatered it, at least it shouldn’t have been. I’ve always somewhat gone by the lift test. Only thing that makes sense with that, is I had her heavily mulched indoors in her last pot, so maybe it stayed kind of wet towards the bottom of the pot. It had a slightly “anaerobic” smell when I transplanted it. What would be the best way to mend the roots? She’s outdoors now and it’s been warm, today is supposed to get to 94 I believe. So just less waterings and less frequent feedings? I don’t use bottled nutrients haha, just kind of a personal standard for me. KNF Inputs - I follow Natural Farming principles. Basically fermented plant extracts. It’s a lot to explain in one post. Many people seem to use it successfully, but there isn’t really a standard feeding / watering schedule. Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
It sure does to me and I see it a good bit because I tend to a low N diet. My go to is a top dressing of soy meal or rarely, blood meal, both a pure N input. I'm really liking the results I'm getting with the soy. Nice greening with less chance of N burn like with blood or alfalfa. But, I'm also with Scooby here with the (plain), water only for the time being. By all means get the BT-k. It is a bacillus that targets only caterpillars and is harmless to everything else. Over the years I've eaten a good bit of it from eating treated tomatos right off the vine. But do get the concentrate, not the ready to use. You only need ~1tsp/Qt of spray, so the ready to use IS mostly water. Great stuff, I've been using it for over 35 years. Wet
"Slightly 'anaerobic' smell, usually translates directly to "Insufficent aeration". Way more than overwatering as a cause. IME, 40% aeration should be the *new* minimum and 50% not a bad target. Wet
@wetdog Got it. Very interesting, I’ve actually been wondering about soy meal. I have a bunch of dry soybeans, would that be something I could make myself? Or is it more of the whole plant that is used to make soy meal? Just for future reference. I’ve definitely used bloodmeal and experienced burning so I prefer not to use it as well. I’ll grab some of the BT spray next time I’m somewhere that carries it. And about aeration - could the heavy mulching contribute to that? Perhaps causing too little evaporation? I’ve used the soil that was in that pot in a lot of other pots and never had a problem. Just trying to learn, not trying to ask a question then challenge the answer or anything. Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
I've never messed with whole dried beans, here, they are actually more expensive than the meal. 50lb bags of soy bean meal run ~$12-$15 and no further work is required beyond lugging the bag to a convenient spot. Don't lolligag around getting the BT. Worms (caterpillars), can do a LOT of damage even in one night and finding eggs is one helluva alarm. With the mulch and aeration, it's somewhat the evaporation, but mostly a too dense mix not allowing enough oxygen to the roots. They're related, but different. Wet
So I cut the feeding down to 2x per week, just been giving dechlorinated tap waterings in between those. This is how she looks now. I think it’s safe to say the issue is resolved. Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum