One problem the floralux 150 from htg puts out 16000 lumens. Alos because all of the heat is in one location and can be vented away using an optional piece for the fixture it will be far better then cfls.
CFLweasel that was the most amazing series of posts Ive ever read, Im a physics major and just sat stoned and friggin read your whole thread. Awesome. You also prob just me a bunch of cash, Im doing a small SMALL grow and was really bummin over not being able to work out a 150hps b/c of heat and now Im glad I didnt waste the cash. Also really interested in LEDs now for my micro cab. Wanted to know how well that HGT light has been working for ya and what kind of heat it puts off. Thanks for all your time and research man.
Awesome Man! I'm currently working on a sister thread/faq type deal to this one to straighten out some of what I said... While you're at it, check out the GE reveal cfl's http://forum.grasscity.com/general-indoor-growing/526159-best-cfl-flowering-yet.html I don't use CFL anymore, barely anyway now that I got the UFO anyway. As for the growth, I thought it was excellent. I'm REALLY camera shy about my sh*t but I will tell you that it's some of the tightest internode spacing I've seen in VEG and flower, although a little slower than I'd like... You can see my cabinet here: http://forum.grasscity.com/general-indoor-growing/495155-building-led-ufo-cabinet.html As for any heat concerns with the HTG ufo? The heat produced is so small that I'm running a single 26watt CFL in there with it just to help keep temps up slightly I think it's the best deal for the money personally. The issue with LED's is this: It's not just about frequencies... Lots of people bicker about lens angles etc. I've heard ppl complain about HTG's UFO because they say the angle is too wide of a beam to get the 6 square feet the say it will cover or whatever. I don't care because my area is less than 2sq ft. Basically a mini sog in there. Probably won't even keep up with my consumption but whatever... Anyway- there's lots of people with good points against my precious CFL's too, and I'll admit that... The output loss does kinda suck... If you look at the charts for maximum lumen output over time (not mortality, that just means whether or not it turns on at all) you'll see they're different. With t5, t8, t12, t5ho etc they have a good stability it seems. That is, if you look at the chart, they don't lose much of their output throughout their lives. With a linear tube, if it's on, you can basically assume you're getting 85% or better of the output it's rated for. Not so with CFL at about half it's usefull life, the luminous output of the bulbs declines on a curve. I assume this has something to do with the way the tube is made. IE- they don't have caps and pins, they have the tubes basically glass-blown shut with leads coming out and stuff. I'm guessing maybe air gets in over time? Whatever. It's one drawback I'll admit to. Yes also they can't be vented with a cooltube like HID, so at some point, the small heat they do produce does become a problem if you let it. It sucks, but all that venting stuff costs more money right? Yes they don't get penetration like a HID, but neither does T5HO, it's a fluorescent thing. All in all, from what I've seen, CFL grows are a niche market... When you grow with them you can't expect miracles. If I had to guess at their ranking in terms of what you get for plant material in the ends, I'd guess they sort of fall somewhere in between growing the 1980's way with all t12 or t8 workshop lighting fixtures etc, and a proper T5HO system of roughly comparable lumens/watts etc. Also, there's the issue with the spiral... They both present their own advantages and disadvantages if you ask me... The spiral tube of a cfl is inefficient I'll admit because it scatters the light differently even though we can't always see that... The tubes don't have this problem, but then their is the length of the tube... To get more light in most cases involves using longer tubes, and then they can get messy... How many can you put in horizontal rows over your plants before they become too dense in number to manage? Mabye you'll use them for corner lighting but it could pose other problems in terms of obstructing primary lighting sources or ventillation etc... etc... "pick your poison" is the better way of posing that question if you ask me The moral? To me CFL's are like the "poor man's T5HO" lol. They're not as good as T5HO, but better than old school tubes. Just like older harley davidson motorcycles were revered as cantankerous machines which required constant tuning by their beloved owners (not knocking harley here), CFL are kinda like that... Yeah they've got problems, and there are other ways to get the job done, but they do suit some cases. For the bbudget bracket they simply can't be beat either CHEERS!
Before I even read this great post I decided to use CFL U8 250watt for veg and then make the switch to a 600watt HPS setup in the flowering phase of the grow. I wasn't sure if I could do this being a new grower and all but this thread has definately shed some "Light" on the matter... I was also thinking of adding some small 45watt CFL's just hanging from the cable over the central bar between the plants so I can get light in as far as possible in the veg growth stage. Is this ok to do...? I think I seen this being done in another thread somewhere but not 100% sure. I made the swicth to CFL from using my 600watt HPS bulbs so I still have them lying around the garage somewhere... Thanks for the very informative post. I am so glad I found it.
04/15/2010 Since early 2007 I used to rant and rave (here and elsewhere) on and on about the wonderful utility behind CFL lighting. I've moved on recently with the purchase of a “proper†set of t5ho lights for vegging, and a (ugh) 150W digital ballast HPS. Due to time constraints, I won't be updating this particular thread any more, and will instead focus my “how light works†thread as much as I can. I am under some time constraints right now due to my current course load with exams and such, so please bear with me. I also need to take a physics class soon to finish my major so I hope learn more useful information there as well. On to how I feel about the lights… I started using CFL's for two basic reasons: Cheap, and I wasn't sure if I had the “green thumb†so to speak- so spending tons of money on something I might suck as was a no-go. It worked out for me in the end and led to greater things, as I am sure it does eventually to us all. Nonetheless CFL's are solely responsible for my first ever “first bag I grew myself†feeling. And who couldn't relate? In a nutshell here's the ups and downs: PRO's: Price: still the cheapest initial investment- I don't care what other ppl try to say: CFL's are dirt cheap over the counter, and you can usually improvise your own fixtures with stuff lying around the garage, yard sales, free craiglslist, garbage whatever. Professional grow lights cost money. Period. The extras etc. Also- don't fool yourself into thinking it's a savings to just modify a security light. I do not recommend this. Although each light is different my experience is this: Grow Lights (HID) run warm, modified outdoor security lights run hot. You can't put a price on not burning your house down. Color Spectrum: If you read into the hype (like I am) about the photosynthetic response curve, etc, some brands of CFL's produce more useable light per watt (not overall) that HID for plant growth. High lumens/watt: Although I am trying to lean against using lumens for plant purposes- I can't help the fact that many others chose to do exactly that, even though I feel it's wrong, I guess I'm forced to “play ball.†That said, CFL's do put out lots of lumens for what you pump in. As a side note: when I wrote this I was using statistics widely available for magnetic ballasts. It has been brought to my attention many times that digital ballasts correct this problem. I do not disagree. At the time, however, I was unable to find any manufacturers who made a digital ballast in a 150Watt size. I was unable to locate such an item, so I adopted the stance that for grows involving a 150w HPS on a magnetic ballast, that CFL's can have a higher or equal lumen output. Today, however 150W digital ballasted HPS lights are somewhat more readily available. I'm not quite sure when this happened. I'll even admit that these ballasts may have even been on the market in 2007 when my “quest†began, as it were. Nonetheless, I should take a moment to say that a 150W HPS with a digital ballast, with a rated power factor of 95% or better, will produce more light than any combination of CFL's “Can be placed closer to plant canopyâ€: Note that I placed this header in quotes. Why? Because- most people will tell you this as if it's an advantage- in reality it's not some sort of advantage- it is the only way to see decent results. The lights can be placed closer to the canopy because they produce less heat individually, but they have to be placed that close because they also don't produce a ton of light individually. They Work: People wouldn't talk about them if they didn't. Period. Note that I did not say that they will produce the tightest packed juicy flowers you have ever seen. But, they will “work.†CONS: HID's do work better: But hopefully you already knew that right? I mean you probably went with CFL for the cheap price tag in the beginning yourself right? At any rate, despite the varying range of explanations other people promote and swear by, HID lighting will grow better plants, period. CFLs are less intense individually: As the name implies (high intensity discharge lighting) is just that- intense. CFL is not. It has to do with (I think) the way fluorescence works as a scientific phenomena. Anyway- HID lights provide all their light output from a tiny electrical arc, so it's pretty easy- just get a reflector and point it. With CFL however, the light comes off in all sorts of tangential directions from all the edges of the spiral glass surface. A decent amount of light gets “trapped between the coils†so to speak... Because of this disadvantage- the strategies involved differ. The basic strategy for HID: Get a good reflector and shower the canopy with light. The HID will penetrate so side lighting and lower canopy lighting are optional. The basic strategy for lighting with CFL: Get a cabinet and line it with reflective material. Since CFLs are less intense, they will not penetrate the dense canopy well at all so you must try to spread your lights all around. You have to make sure the ceiling is shiny too because with CFL you can't really use reflectors- you just sort of hang them in. Why? Improvised homemade reflectors usually reflect more heat than light, and then you just end up adding more fans to cool all the hot surfaces. I've tried sheet metal, soda cans, aerosol cans cut with a die grinder, shop lights etc. Clamp lights with Y splitters aren't bad if they're made of spun aluminum, but everything else just caused me to use more and more pc fans... With CFL- its sort of like lighting a Christmas tree- put a couple of clamp lights with 2 bulbs apiece over the top, then you hang your lights all around the tree for the best effect- except this way you smoke the tree later CFL's don't always run cooler without lots of help: Let me explain. With a HID light, you can purchase a “vented hoodâ€, or a “cool tube.†These options are basically fancy fixtures (worth the money, don't pretend to be able to build one, it won't work well) that allow you to encase the bulb completely in a sealed package, and then pump fresh air in through a hose on one side, and suck it out through a hole on the other side. The light escapes through a glass window. This has enormous utility to a grower for a couple of reasons: 1) If you're using a cabinet, you can vent your light with separate air from the air that your plants are growing in. How is this an advantage? Picture this: if you just hang a bulb in the open air with a basic foil reflector over it, it's gonna basically act like a heater and heat up the whole room. Then, you'll need LOTS of air circulation to keep it under control. If you use a cool-tube; you can use a smaller fan, and cool the light more effectively. Hell get creative with that exhaust air: put your grow in the basement and run the hot air through your vents in the same direction as the furnace and heat your home in the winter! Don't just grow green- think green! If you had central air conditioning, you could still vent your hot air through your house, simply use the a/c to keep it in check naturally with your existing system... It might work... With CFL, since there aren't cool tube options, you have to vent the entire cabinet to keep things cool via convection no matter what. It can kinda suck, because CFLs can start to heat things up once you start applying that even heat all over the place and not proactively arresting the problem like you can with a cooltube. You can't really do CO2 with CFL (if that even matters to you): Because a CFL grow will inevitably need to be kept cool by venting the entire space, CO2 would be useless because you'd be constantly venting it back out of the grow space... Also, it should be noted that CO2 is something you should only attempt after you feel you have exceeded nearly every other imaginable requirement, and CFLs don't throw that much light. CFLs leave you “trying to guess how much is leftâ€: If you pull a spec-sheet for any major brand CFL, you'll see something that you won't with HID or T5HO: a dramatically sloped “lumen maintenance†curve. This means that the CFL will keep lighting over time, but the amount of light it puts out drops off on a curve. Now you can try to make yourself feel better about it by saying that the bulbs are 8 year bulbs, but remember- those statistics are based on the assumption that you will only be using the light for a few hours a day, not 12. This means they really “should†be replaced at least once a year or even more frequently from what I have hear. Since most people buy their bulbs and add more the the setup as they go- it doesn't take much playing around for a stoner to forget what's what in therms of dates... HIDs have a much better slope, and there is only one bulb to keep track of. Plus, although many folks suggest changing bulbs every 9 months or so, I know of many others who run them as long as they please. CONCLUSION: Although I may have been a little too ambitious in my earlier years, CFLs are still a great way to get started. They're cheap and they do produce flowering plants, so they've goth that going for them. Think about it, any idiot could: 1) turn a bunch of lays potato chips inside out and hang them in a vacated closet, take a bunch of cheap/trash/yard sale/whatever lamps or table lights etc and take them apart. Hang a bunch of shit everywhere, get a surge strip to plug it all into, steal a fan from the basement/guest bedroom etc. It is the only way that you can simply scrape together a mere 40 bucks and declare an active grow status- instantly making yourself feel like some sort of 200 watt big shot newbie in the process lol... CFLs also come with a bunch of issues you have to be prepared to deal with, which is why I eventually decided to stop using them. I think they definitely still have their place for a bunch of people. They still can produce a finished plant, and that's what matters most to some people. They're a great place to start, and also- if you plan ahead for expansion- most of what you buy the first time (ventilation fans, ducting, mylar, your cabinet etc) won't be wasted money because when you upgrade it will just be the lights so you're only “wasting†the money you spend on some cheap light bulbs... As far as the buds themselves? CFLs will produce buds, but I'll admit the results will vary greatly. The fact is- HIDs pack dense buds. CFLs don't. The real questions with CFL lighting is- how close to HID grade can you get at the finish. In the end, even though I've chosen an alternative form of lighting, There are plenty of reasons to start your growing experience with good old fashioned CFLs. Also many HID folks still like them for light duty stuff like clones.... I guess CFLs kinda make it possible for people to basically simulate what an old school 80's style fluorescent-tube-only grow was like....I was way too young then so I don't know... At any rate I tink people should "run the numbers" for themselves, and do whatever works best for them
This is will be my first time ever growing, i wanted to get an opinion if this was a good system to buy or not ?? This is the link to the hydro system. Any input or helpful tips would be highly appreciated, thanks. SH Hydroponics, Inc. > Multi Spectrum Bubbleponicsâ„¢ Complete Kit
Ya know man, it actually looks pretty cool to me I've never done hydro, but I don't see any reason I wouldn't try it out... Decent price considering that's probably about what you chould build it for yourself- looks like a tad bit of custon design for the reflector etc... Why not? -Weasel
Hydroponics are easy, aslong as you check your PH and EC regularly then you'll be just fine. What type of hydro are you trying...? Did I miss it...?
40w 6500k 2x24x20w t8...rooting 200w actual 6500k cfl vegging 250 hps flowering I tried a led, a very expensive mistake . I ran an mh/ hps setup for a couple of grows I am now on the 4th grow using the setup shown above. for my needs its perfect. I think if i were going to change anything it might be a switch from the cfl to t5. i am waiting to hear from those using it , good and bad.
Did you read the article? It's in there, bro. Neither. What matters most is the wavelength of light, not how many watts OR how many lumens. Those are simply reference points for our vision. Search PAR. That's the golden ticket.
Is there a formula to calculate lumens/watt?? To my understanding the number of lumens per watt varies depending on the type of light source you are using (cfl,HID,l.e.d) and the actual wattage of the source (50w, 150w, 600w, 1kw). Different wattages have different efficiency levels and different sources have different efficiency levels therefore, there is no specific lumen/watt formula...lumens/watt will be specific to the type of lights you are using... I'm somewhat new to growing so if this isn't right someone let me know. Edit: Nice post by the way. Very, very informative and was great to see the comparison of the different specifics of lights, you can tell that you have put hours and hours of research and thought into this subject.
you should really check out these new 300 watt CFLs at home depo. There 15$ a piece. I need to pick me up 3 but i already have over 300 watts of cfls. And the closet im growing in gets pretty warm.