Your best bet for improved cooling is to take it apart and maybe use an econowing reflector. check the links:http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=HLRESEW http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1151.htm
Try to use the most light you can for your plants. Remember- just because you can fit them all in the cabinet without crowding the floor, doesn't mean they're all getting enough light. Remember- in order to get the best lighting conditions possible, you'll need to satisfy a few rules all at once: 1) No less than 3,000 Lumens/ Square foot. Measure your grow space and figure out how many lumens/square foot you'll be getting. If it's less than 3,000 Lumens/SQ foot, then either add more lights or add a fake wall to make your grow space smaller. If you have to use more than 200-250Watts to get that kind of light, then your grow area is to large to use CFL and you’ll be disappointed with the wait and the end results. 2) 100Watts of actual power for the first plant, and 50Watts for each extra plant. (EX- 5 plants= 100watts for the first plant + 4plants*50Watts= 300Watts of light needed- too much for CFL IMHO...) 3) line the grow area with the best reflective material you can get and use as few reflectors on the bulbs as you can. Remember- light loses its intensity the further it has to travel before the plant absorbs it. You'll need reflectors for the lights that you hang over the plants because you want the light to bounce right down to them without having to bounce off the ceiling first. As for the side lights, try to hang them inside the canopy. That way the light gets absorbed on all sides by your plants before it has to lose intensity traveling to a wall and bouncing back onto something to get absorbed. Put your CFL in there sideways and not up and down since more light comes off the sides of the spiral than off the tip. The trouble growing with CFL is making a decent grow space that uses less then 250Watts. What you'll find out as you get into this is that you have to keep your grow area small in order to get the most lumens/square foot, but then you barely have enough space left to fit enough lights in there in order to get 100Watts for the first plant and 50Watts for every additional plant. By the time you satisfy those rules, sometimes there isn't enough space left on the floor to fit in as many plants as you'd like to. This is why I recommend CFL for small, personal closet grows. If you want to grow with CFL that's fine. Just expect to get enough for you and maybe a little to share. It's not going to be huge. If it is huge, you're probably running over 250 watts. If you doing that, switch to HPS and watch it get huger. My advice is to use CFL for 3-4 plants at a time or less. Remember- even though your plants may not be putting shade on each other and blocking light; they are still sharing the available total light amongst each other. If you get greedy and stuff too many plants in there, they'll grow slowly, your yields will be smaller, and you'll get less dense buds that are really airy etc. If you grow less plants at once, your yields (per plant not overall) will improve somewhat, but the quality of your buds will be much better.
I think it would also be useful to identify particularly efficient CFL bulbs. GE's energy smart series seems to be the best bang for the buck as they output 1750 lumens at 26 watts (67.3 lumens/watt) and are available at Wal-Mart in packs of six for around $15. The most efficient bulb that I have been able to find is Feit Electric's ESL30T, which outputs 2050 lumens at 30 watts (68.3 lumens/watt). Unfortunately, the bulbs cost about $8 apiece and do not seem to be available in bulk. I looked at the major CFL manufacturers' websites such as GE, Sylvania, n:vision, Globe, Feit Electrics, etc. and can't find anything that is much more efficient than what I identified above. If there is something I missed, please post it in this thread. Another idea that I have been considering for high efficiency lighting is using automotive HID lighting as an alternative to HPS and metal halide setups traditionally used in horticulture. Cheap Chinese made ballasts have been flooding the market for people who want to switch out the bulbs in their headlamps with HID lighting (BTW, please don't do this with your own car. It produces a lot of glare for other drivers). Anyway, D2S burners (HID bulbs) output 3200 lumens and ballasts use 35 watts, yielding 91.4 lumens per watt. However, automotive electronics run on 12 volts DC and not AC so that you would have to use something like a computer power supply to power the ballasts. I am not sure what the ultimate efficiency would be with that set up but it would be interesting to find out. For the brave people who wish to experiment,this supplier seems to have the cheapest offerings.
Quick Comment about CFLs: I went to Walmart today on one of my "DownHill" runs from the mountains. I was amazed when I saw a Two-Pack of 26W "GE" Energy Smart (100W Incand equiv) 6500K Daylight Bulbs for $4.44 (That's $2.22/bulb!!!)...I bought 6-Two Packs... That's 19,200 lumens for $26.64 (LESS TAX)...Now I will use these for supplemental side lighting after topping in veg in my 46", 4-Bulb T5 fixture...BUT!! They had 2700K GE's @1700 lumens (26W or 100W Incand Equiv's) at $15.16 a SIX PACK!!! That's like $2.50 per bulb...I got a bunch of those too for supplemental lighting in the stinky-sticky stages along with my 2700K 46" flour tubes. I could be pushing as much as 26,400 lumens (less all the math on the reductions expected as mentioned earlier) by adding 4-26Watters staggered in the middle of my six plants and a rotation scheme. Anyways, going to the Walmart Spiral CFL section gives a stoner a MAJOR CHUBBY!!!! PS- Great Thread here!!!!!!!
Don't ask me why but I had trouble with 26W 6500K Feit's..this is weird and the guy I bought them from told me I was nuts or was running them on 220V (BS)...I had two of them side by side with a "Y" splitter in a 10" reflector. At the base of the bulb where the CFL tube connects to the ballast piece, the damn things got loose and would wiggle badly (assuming they could not handle the heat??)...anyways, I have no probs like this with 26W GE's, Phillips, Sylvania's, etc...ONLY FEITS...
Here's a little chart I put together to help myself figure out lighting choices. Maybe others can use it, as well. It shows lumens per (bulb)watts, cost per 10,000 hours use (including bulb expense and electricity @$.10/kH), and how many lumens per dollar. Like weasel said, the ballast efficiency is ignored here, so it is a little off, but the comparisons are still valid. The estimated cost for a do it yourself fixture is based on my life-long electronics experience and the cost of bulbs is from a two day internet search for the best prices. Your mileage may vary. The bulb cost is almost inconsequential, and the diy fixture cost is not part of the calculations, only a guide for handy growers in estimating start-up costs.
Has anyone had issues with wiring self ballasted, socket style CFL's in series rather than in parallel? My current rig has four lights, but I was going to double that eventually... wondering if my wiring technique will hold up! So, series vs parallel?
I don't know if this helps but I bought a used bathroom vanity that has 4 sockets and with Y splitters you can get 8 on it. Then you don't have to worry about wiring. It's all done and it's safe. I believe each socket can take up to 100w. Peace
damn, im still confused on what lamps to get.. i need lamps for 1 up to 3 plants and also somthing cheap..?
I'm a little confused with this part. When you say to measure your grow space, are you referring to the area of the base of the box? Or are you referring to cubic feet of the grow box?
The reasoning is all there, but you missed a few other options. 2g11 cfls and diy T5HO. Both offer the added ability to remote the ballast and therefore control heat waaayyy better! If you diy the 2 foot 4 lamp T5HO will cost around $70 and replacement bulbs are around $5 - the same with 2g11 with the initial cost a few bucks more, but replacement bulbs are also around $5. I am with you on the below 300w thing, but for me - I have to grow in a finished attic. It has central air, but still early summer afternoons are HOT which makes cooling an issue. I am currently growing quite successfully with 6 x 40w 2700 and 2 x 27w 6500 cfl and heat is an issue. Had I known what I know now, I would have created air cooled fixtures!
Okay this is my first message on this site and after much reading i have a few questions about cfl lights; 1. How much are these things and what is the highest wattage available 2. Can they be used at the flowering stage to satisfaction 3. Is there a maximum amount of bulbs that can be used
ok ok ok you seem to have done this all wrong your calculations look solid but once you take into account the yeild....you might change your mind. and the simple fact of having 1 light or 8 to plug in >.>
ANY1 WHO NEEDS LIGHTING INFO THIS IS THE SH*T!! I think this is great, and I will go with him on the under 250watt go with CFLS. Yes 2g11's or T8's are the way to go with CFLS if you have a BIG grow space, If you are limited I would recommend Small CFLS like you said. I have the Glow Panel 45 watt LED and I think it is Terrible a waste of money Do not buy it!!! I am on a mission to make a nice setup using 4X 30 or 42 watt CFLS in a Air Cooled Fixture. That way I will help with heat, and help everyone with there grow!! Anyone with some build techniques or info, will help out thanks guys
I've been spending a ton of time in another forum, but this thread has got me thinking i've been on the wrong website. There is a TON of information here that is coming from many people with obvious experience and knowledge. Just stopping by to share that with everyone that has contributed to this thread. I've already done my veg chamber with CFL's and have the flower chamber with a 400w hps. But have learned a ton from this thread. thanks GrassCity.
Sorry for such a late reply- I haven't been on in months. I'm assuming you've already addressed this, but If anyone else had a similar question- I would not recommend wiring lights in series ever. There is no safety issue to my knowledge, but in the rare event a bulb doesn't come on, they all won't. I'm not sure what would happen if one were flickering either... Anyway, since there's no difference in safety, light output, or power used, for these purposes I advise paralell wiring always.
In response to some pm's and questions Ive received in the thread asking which CFL's are the best to use brand-wise, I've decided to do this write-up to explain why It isn't quite that easy. Here's how a CFL works: There's a circuit board inside the bottom under the tube calles a "ballast". We'll explain it's function later. Inside the spiral tube is a tiny drop of mercury. Inside the tube are a couple of electrodes on either end called anodes. In order to give off light, the bulb must "draw an arc" across the tube. In other words, you must create and sustain a miniature bolt of lightining inside that vacuum tube and keep it going in order to take advantage of the light that is inevitably given off. Like I said, there's a tiny drop of mercury (the only metal on earth that is liquid at room temperature) in there, but it is in no way large enough to touch both anodes at once so it needs to be in the gaseous state first. As we learned in science class, gases expand to fill their container, so once we get that nice conductive mercury into its gaseous state, it will, by definition, be touching both anodes in order to make a good electrical connection. This is where the ballast comes in- The ballast executes two functions: 1) It fires an initial burst of a few thousand volts in order to "zap" the mercury into its gaseous state 2) drop the voltage to a much lower lever (a few hundred volts) but keep it high enough to keep the mercury in its gaseous state and continue "arc-ing" across the two anodes and providing light as a result. So, One- when you flip the switch, the ballast in the base of the bulb stores up a bunch of energy for a few thousands of a second, and then fires it through the vacuum tube. Almost like a stun gun or something. This initial burst is very power consuming for just a fraction of a moment. The reason for this is because the mercury is still in its liquid state, so thousands of volts are needed to clear the 3 or 4 inch gap through the spiral tube between anodes. While this high voltage gap is happening... It is inevitable that the bead of mercury inside the tube will be struck. This is because electricity will always trake the path of least electrical resistance. And, so, even though that tiny bead is probably only a couple millimeters wide in its liquid state, those 2 mm represent a fraction of the overall distance between anodes that is slightly easier for the electricity to travel through, and therefore it will get struck by the bolt on its way through. Once the bead of mercury gets hit by the initial arc, it becomes a part of that electrical circuit. As such, it will naturally experience a "voltage drop" and, it's temperature will begin to rise, just like the temperature of anything conducting electricity will rise to some degree or another. In this case however, the mercury bead is in a vacuum, so another side effect is that the boiling point of the mercury will drop. (this is either chrales law or boyles law but I forget which). As you might assume, if mercury is liquid at room temperature, then it's "boiling point" will also be very low to begin with. The end result is that this minimal amount of heat accumulation causes the mercury bead to "boil" and therefore go into it's gaseous/vapor state. Now that the mercury is in its gaseous state, it is able to conduct electricity between both anodes inside the tube, so much less voltage is needed. This is where the ballast shifts to it's second function: Two- The ballast uses it's intelligent circuitry to measure the internal circuit resistance and current being drawn. Once the bead of mercury vaporizes, these electrical characteristics of the circuit change, so the ballast switches over to it's lower voltage mode. In this mode, the ballast is now only supplying just enough voltage (a few hundred volts) to keep the mercury in it's vaporous state. Remember, even though it is in it's gaseous state, t stil conducts electricity, so it is still naturally liberating some heat energy because it is drawing some current... The high voltage is no longer needed because we don't need to strike an arc through a void where there is no conductive material. Once the mercury is in vapor state, and has a steady arc drawn across it, the bulb is stable. It will continnue to arc at this relatively low voltage level until the bulb burns out or something else happens such as the power source being removed. When you turn off the lightswitch, there juice stops moving, and the bead of mercury cools down and settles as a liquid bubble trapped somewhere in the tube. NEXT: how they finally burn out and where the color comes from...
So how do these bulbs eventually fail when they do? Here's a few ways I can think of: In an ideal system without much wear, I'd guess that cause of failure to these bulbs would be that the vacuum in the tube becomes corrupted with air eventually. This could happen a few ways- First off there's no such thing as a perfect seal, so it's inevitable. Also glass is not a solid, in physics it is defined as a "supercooled liquid" at room temperature. Ever see windows in an old barn that are thicker at the bottom? That's because the glass has literal;ly been dripping down and running like liquid wet paint for all those years. Based on that logic, the vacuum in the tube will inevitable somehow suck a bubble through the glass over time. This is not however the most likely cause of failure in the real world. For one they do get physically broken from time to time, but the biggest killer of these bulbs is wear on the anodes inside caused by the high voltage acr-ing. If you read the manufacturer websites thy will tell you these lights last the longest of you don't turn them on and off a low. Thats because each time you turn the light on, the high voltage arc makes a tiny pit of damage in the anode inside. Eventually all that micro-damage adds up and it doesn't function. Kinda like stop and go driving kills a car faster than all highway driving. For this strange reason, you may notice your grow bulbs outlasting the cfl's in your house because the grow lights only get turned on and off once daily! Weird hiuh?
So you may be wondering, if the light from a CFL is a product of a high voltage arc, then where do the different colors come from? Well, now I'll pry that can of worms open with you The color comes from something called te "phosphor coating" The inside of the spiral tube is coated with a powdery substance containing phosphorus and some other doping chemical agents... This is where my scientific know how gets a little blury- but I have a couple of ideas what happens next. 1) theory number one (i'm pretty sure this is incorrect) the phosphor coating acts like a sort of filter and only allows certain colors of light through. 2) theory number two (I'm pretty sure this is more correct) The phosphor coating is struck by the intense light given off by the electrical arc. Because light is both a wave, energy, and a form of radiation, these factors all somehow influence the phosphor coating to give off light, and it's that light which will have its own color depending on the chemical mix of the phosphor coating. I'm pretty sure it's similar to like if you've ever heated lithium over a bunsen burner and it gives off freaky light patterns as it's electrons leave and return the outer shell.... I'm pretty sure the concept is similar, but what's happening is the phosphor coating on the inside of the tube gets struck by and absorbs light radiation and then re-radiates the energy as colored light, the color of which will be influenced by the chemical makeup of the phosphor coating. Can someone help me here? Anyway, in either instance, we can agree that the phosphor coating is somehow responsible for the "color" of light the bulb gives off. This is where the question: "what brand to use?" gets tough to nswer... Different manufacturers all use different formulas in their bulbs, so the exact colors given off will, of course, be different. And unfortunately, it's not even that simple... NEXT: Why the color system used for CFL light bulbs is very difficult to apply toward indoor gardening...