[quote name='"desuforeverlulz"'] That's wonderful and all but dude... don't quote the OP.. *facepalm*[/quote] Ill quote it all I wish >.>
My conversation with an atheist about my beliefs: You're chatting with a random stranger on Omegle. You: Hello, Stranger. Stranger: hi, fellow stranger You: There are around six billion people living on the planet right now. Stranger: seven* You: 6~7. You: The point is, every single person has a story, they have something to share. Stranger: yep You: What about you? Stranger: my story? You: Yes, Stranger, what is your story? Stranger: where to start, haha You: Well, why not tell me some objective info about yourself? You: Your name, where you're from, your age? Stranger: sure. my name is james, i live in western europe and i'm 22. You: Did you go to college? Stranger: yes, i studied electrical engineering You: Were you able to get a job in that field? Stranger: yes You: Fancy that. My middle name is James, and nearly every uncle including my grandfather on my mother's side of the family are electricians. Stranger: some say that god does not play dice with the universe... but i'm just putting it down to coincidence You: As am I. You: Speaking of God, what do you believe about religion, the afterlife, why we exist, etc.? Stranger: i'm not religious, so no afterlife, and we exist simply as the result of one outcome of a staggeringly large set of possibilities You: You want to know what I believe? Most people haven't heard of this idea before, but, to me at least, it's the most logical set of beliefs that involve a deity. Stranger: i subscribe to the occam's razor school of thought... that the simplest explanation is more likely You: Well, it is simple in my view, but it may be difficult to understand, at first, to many people. Stranger: try me You: Well, the purpose of human's existence is to one day become like our creator, whom we'll call God, but it's not the type of god that Christians and Muslims propagate. You: This God is more like a clockwork maker who simply let the universe unwind as it would. Stranger: so, basically... said deity hit the start button and let entropy do its job? You: Essentially. But the "challenging" part is where you begin to understand how the universe functions, according to the belief. You: All humans are inhibited by the exact same soul, reincarnated hundreds of billions of times over. You: Every time the soul is reincarnated, it carries with it all the past knowledge, wisdom and experience gained in the previous life. You: How it reincarnates is entirely predetermined, but does not happen in a chronological order, i.e. who was born first. You: It occurs in a way where each human it inhibits appears incrementally more wise and learned than his or her predecessor. You: With me so far? Stranger: i understand so far, yes You: So, say you were to die right now in 2011. You could just as easily be reincarnated as a Roman plebeian woman in the year 115 AD as you could be reincarnated as a soldier in the Iraqi army in the year 1990 AD. You: The only way we can possibly guess at where you will go is by judging how wise you were in this life. No human being could ever possibly know who you would reincarnate as. Only God knows this. Stranger: your theory could cause major causality issues in the universe You: I think I know what you're getting at... but explain further. Stranger: let's go for an applied example... if you're saying that knowledge, etc, is retained... surely in some cases someone would be reincarnated in a previous time but with knowledge from the far future (relative to the time in which they reincarnate)? Stranger: furthermore, it implies that people will only get smarter... yet there are still some, uh, not exactly intelligent people in this world You: Ah, I was just about to explain that part. You: See, when you are reborn, you have a completely clean mind, free from any knowledge or wisdom. You: Your soul is what has the infinite knowledge and wisdom. You: You are inherently linked to your soul, but as far as I am aware, it is impossible to access the knowledge held by it. Stranger: so what good is this propagated information if it cannot be used? You: It is used, but in a way that is underlying and not in the least bit distinct to the conscious mind. You: As we relearn the information we learned when we lived our past lives, it comes to us quicker. You: As the soul progresses in its learning, eventually only valid truths will stick to the human mind. Stranger: if only valid truths are retained... then why do so many contradictory religions still exist? You: Because the people who propagate false truths seek to find wisdom, but the human mind is fickle. It picks up mistakes where it wants to, in the form of convictions. These mistakes occur in at least 95% of humans. Stranger: i see You: Eventually, when the soul reaches its last human before becoming like God, that human will have greater wisdom than any other person. Can you think of no one like this? Who lived their entire life in absolute humbleness and sought to bring peace and joy to the world? Stranger: nobody's perfect You: Ah, but Jesus Christ was. Stranger: [citation needed] You: Well, as tradition says, Jesus Christ is the son of God, and lived entirely without sin. When he was crucified, he rose from the dead three days later. You: I feel that all religions are right in one aspect or another, and this is where Christianity was accurate. Stranger: but Stranger: the only source that claims such a thing is the bible Stranger: which cannot be validated You: Right, I'm not denying that what I'm saying can't be refuted. You: Remember, this isn't a debate, I'm simply describing my beliefs to you. Stranger: i was merely pointing out possible flaws... only by testing all possibilities can we determine the truth You: What the Christians don't understand is that we all share the same soul. Everyone will one day be like Jesus, no matter where along the line they are. You: They are so close to what I am saying, and yet they don't realize. You: Have you not heard them call themselves "children of God"? Stranger: i've heard You: The idea that we are all the same person in different bodies is never denied and even supported in the Bible. Stranger: well Stranger: can't say i agree Stranger: haha You: You might not agree with the belief entirely, but the point I was making is that Christian tradition fits with my theory. You: Christian morals are supported by a very, very weak system. You: They say if you do something wrong, just ask God for forgiveness, and you'll be saved again. Stranger: christianity and morals are mutually exclusive Stranger: see: revelation 21:8 Stranger: haha You: That passage doesn't support your claim. You: As I see it, it simply says people who sin will be punished. Stranger: but it also means, following your logic, that all would end up in hell Stranger: e.g. jesus being reincarnated as hitler, etc You: I didn't say the Bible was completely true. Stranger: so you're just cherry-picking? You: In a way, yes. Stranger: how can you take some parts as truth and discard others? You: I stated before that all religions are right in one aspect or another. You: I didn't say that all religions (or even just Christianity) were completely right. Stranger: and how do you know this? You: I don't know. You: What I do know, is that I know nothing. Stranger: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence You: Belief and fact are two very different things. People like to say one thing is the other, all the time. You: I, however, keep belief and fact very much apart. Stranger: but believing something without evidence is tantamount to self-delusion... You: Believing something is self-delusion if there is evidence to the contrary. Stranger: and it's baseless if there is no supporting evidence You: Baseless, but, not delusional. Never delusional. It might well be the truth. Stranger: i could say that i believe in a teapot orbiting the black hole at the centre of our galaxy... nobody can disprove this, but it's still a ridiculous claim You: Of course it's a ridiculous claim, and you know why? You: Someone would have had to manufacture that teapot and put it there. You: That doesn't make any sense. You: I see the point you've made, but, believe me, it's a very shabby analogy to belief about the origin of the universe and the meaning of life. Stranger: it's about the concept, the teapot was just an example Stranger: similarly, i could say that i believe in an invisible unicorn that is all-seeing and all-knowing Stranger: or santa You: I know, I'm familiar with the teapot theory. Stranger: it's all the same concept You: Honestly, it really isn't. Theories that make sense but are unprovable are much more likely to be true than theories that make no sense and are unprovable. Stranger: and you're claiming that your theory makes sense? Stranger: based on what, exactly? a set of unverifiable books from which passages that fit into your world view are selected, and the rest discarded? You: There is a great deal of mystery to some unanswered questions of life, like whether or not we have a purpose, or if there is a supernatural being who created us. There is no great deal of mystery to why there wouldn't be an invisible unicorn, Santa Claus at the North Pole, or a teapot orbiting a blackhole. Stranger: yes, there is a great deal of mystery as to the universe... but, unlike the unicorn, teapot, santa, tooth fairy, zeus, the abrahamic god and the sun god, we can figure out most of the answers using science Stranger: we know what happened fractions of a second after the big bang Stranger: we know that species evolve, and we have evidence to support it You: Did I ever deny the big bang theory or the theory of evolution, or are you attacking a straw man, sir? Stranger: i'm pointing out that we don't need deities or imaginary friends to explain the universe as we have the tools necessary to find evidence to determine what happened You: Did I ever say that my God put everything here? Or did I just say he let it roll as it would, like a clockwork mechanism? Maybe that answers your question why some parts of the Bible can be treated as folly. Stranger: none of this changes the fact that you pick only the parts that you agree with from the bible and discard the rest... with no evidence to support the decision of which to keep and which to discard Stranger: and, similarly, it also doesn't prove that the bible is true *at all* You: I believe my theory coincides 100% perfectly with science. There are many parts of the Bible which very much go against what science has proven to be true. Stranger: lol! Stranger: show me one piece of evidence for a soul Stranger: you can't claim something coincides with science without evidence You: Well, earlier you were stating a few facts about what scientists have learned to be true about the universe. You: The way you said it implied that my beliefs clash somehow with science. You: Coincides is the opposite of clash as I'm using it. You: It fits in between the cracks of the mysteries of the universe that science can't possibly answer, such as, is there a purpose to our existence? Do we have a soul? Do we go somewhere when we die? Stranger: so a "god of the gaps"? You: Essentially. Stranger: but there is no evidence to back it up You: As I said, this isn't a debate. I'm not trying to back it up, I'm simply telling you what I believe. If you don't believe it, that's perfectly fine by me, because my beliefs don't say you'll go to hell for not believing in them. You: Now, the main and most valid reason I "cherry-pick" from the Bible is because no part of it was or ever will be divinely inspired text. However, what they wrote and said about Jesus Christ may have very well been true. It also could be a pack of false and malicious lies, and I'm willing to accept that possibility. You: Most religions are systematical perpetual money makers. They frighten you with the prospect of hell, and then once you've bitten the hook, they drag you in and get you to donate all the money in your pockets. You: My beliefs are not influenced by greed for money. It's free from corruption, and free from the few lies told here and there that force you to shell out an extra $10. Like buying indulgences to absolve you from your sins, as an example. You: Sure, I could tell you to give to the poor or be nice to people, because you'd be doing it to your future/past selves, but that doesn't earn me anything. It's purely from the goodness of your heart. Stranger: i don't need beliefs to do that Stranger: i'm a humanist, and i donate time and money to amnesty... You: I didn't say you needed a belief to do that, but believe it or not, some people are so cruel and heartless that they actually do. Stranger: and some people do cruel and heartless things as a result of their beliefs You: Right, but where in my set of beliefs does it seem like it would be okay to do those kinds of things? Stranger: but it's not in human nature to consider long-term consequences Stranger: most people think a year is a long time, never mind a lifetime or ten Stranger: and many people are guilty of the "not my problem" attitude You: Most religions say it's okay if you mess up, just pray and ask for forgiveness. Not mine. If you believe the beliefs I do, then you'd have to believe that one day you would have to suffer the same way you make others suffer. You: Treat others as you would want to be treated has never been more accurate. Stranger: but if you're not aware of your past lives, then it's easy for people to pretend they didn't happen and that another won't either You: And that's true. So, maybe there is little consequence for doing what you do, and I'm okay with that. I didn't say or imply that my beliefs would absolutely stop any of its believers from causing harm unto others. You: The sad thing is, many religions do imply that. You: I should probably stop calling it "my beliefs" and just start calling it a "religion," because it very much is by definition of a religion. The only reason I wasn't inclined to do so is because I'm thoroughly dissatisfied with negative connotations of calling something a religion. You: That's why many people like to say, "I'm not religious, but I am spiritual." Stranger: try being an atheist You: I have been for the past 18 years. You: Well, at least, as soon as I reached the Age of Reason. Stranger: your beliefs are deistic, not atheistic You: This is a rather new belief for me. You: I used to deny the existence of any gods just as you do now. Stranger: oh, i see, so you used to be an atheist You: Precisely. Stranger: ah. well, i'm afraid i'm going to have to cut us short... i can't keep my eyes open - it's late here and i've got to be up in a few hours :/ You: No worries. Stranger: thank you very much for the conversation - it was very interesting You: And you're right, my current beliefs are very much deistic. Stranger: You: Have a good night. Stranger: cheers, you too. 'night Your conversational partner has disconnected. If I were to give a name to my religion, I would probably call it Progressive Reincarnation or Humanistic Progression. Any other ideas?
i think life was like created in liike a forest when these 2 dudes were takin bluehead shrooms and sparked a thought bubble then earth created liiike in 7 days
[quote name='"desuforeverlulz"']My conversation with an atheist about my beliefs: You're chatting with a random stranger on Omegle. You: Hello, Stranger. Stranger: hi, fellow stranger You: There are around six billion people living on the planet right now. Stranger: seven* You: 6~7. You: The point is, every single person has a story, they have something to share. Stranger: yep You: What about you? Stranger: my story? You: Yes, Stranger, what is your story? Stranger: where to start, haha You: Well, why not tell me some objective info about yourself? You: Your name, where you're from, your age? Stranger: sure. my name is james, i live in western europe and i'm 22. You: Did you go to college? Stranger: yes, i studied electrical engineering You: Were you able to get a job in that field? Stranger: yes You: Fancy that. My middle name is James, and nearly every uncle including my grandfather on my mother's side of the family are electricians. Stranger: some say that god does not play dice with the universe... but i'm just putting it down to coincidence You: As am I. You: Speaking of God, what do you believe about religion, the afterlife, why we exist, etc.? Stranger: i'm not religious, so no afterlife, and we exist simply as the result of one outcome of a staggeringly large set of possibilities You: You want to know what I believe? Most people haven't heard of this idea before, but, to me at least, it's the most logical set of beliefs that involve a deity. Stranger: i subscribe to the occam's razor school of thought... that the simplest explanation is more likely You: Well, it is simple in my view, but it may be difficult to understand, at first, to many people. Stranger: try me You: Well, the purpose of human's existence is to one day become like our creator, whom we'll call God, but it's not the type of god that Christians and Muslims propagate. You: This God is more like a clockwork maker who simply let the universe unwind as it would. Stranger: so, basically... said deity hit the start button and let entropy do its job? You: Essentially. But the "challenging" part is where you begin to understand how the universe functions, according to the belief. You: All humans are inhibited by the exact same soul, reincarnated hundreds of billions of times over. You: Every time the soul is reincarnated, it carries with it all the past knowledge, wisdom and experience gained in the previous life. You: How it reincarnates is entirely predetermined, but does not happen in a chronological order, i.e. who was born first. You: It occurs in a way where each human it inhibits appears incrementally more wise and learned than his or her predecessor. You: With me so far? Stranger: i understand so far, yes You: So, say you were to die right now in 2011. You could just as easily be reincarnated as a Roman plebeian woman in the year 115 AD as you could be reincarnated as a soldier in the Iraqi army in the year 1990 AD. You: The only way we can possibly guess at where you will go is by judging how wise you were in this life. No human being could ever possibly know who you would reincarnate as. Only God knows this. Stranger: your theory could cause major causality issues in the universe You: I think I know what you're getting at... but explain further. Stranger: let's go for an applied example... if you're saying that knowledge, etc, is retained... surely in some cases someone would be reincarnated in a previous time but with knowledge from the far future (relative to the time in which they reincarnate)? Stranger: furthermore, it implies that people will only get smarter... yet there are still some, uh, not exactly intelligent people in this world You: Ah, I was just about to explain that part. You: See, when you are reborn, you have a completely clean mind, free from any knowledge or wisdom. You: Your soul is what has the infinite knowledge and wisdom. You: You are inherently linked to your soul, but as far as I am aware, it is impossible to access the knowledge held by it. Stranger: so what good is this propagated information if it cannot be used? You: It is used, but in a way that is underlying and not in the least bit distinct to the conscious mind. You: As we relearn the information we learned when we lived our past lives, it comes to us quicker. You: As the soul progresses in its learning, eventually only valid truths will stick to the human mind. Stranger: if only valid truths are retained... then why do so many contradictory religions still exist? You: Because the people who propagate false truths seek to find wisdom, but the human mind is fickle. It picks up mistakes where it wants to, in the form of convictions. These mistakes occur in at least 95% of humans. Stranger: i see You: Eventually, when the soul reaches its last human before becoming like God, that human will have greater wisdom than any other person. Can you think of no one like this? Who lived their entire life in absolute humbleness and sought to bring peace and joy to the world? Stranger: nobody's perfect You: Ah, but Jesus Christ was. Stranger: [citation needed] You: Well, as tradition says, Jesus Christ is the son of God, and lived entirely without sin. When he was crucified, he rose from the dead three days later. You: I feel that all religions are right in one aspect or another, and this is where Christianity was accurate. Stranger: but Stranger: the only source that claims such a thing is the bible Stranger: which cannot be validated You: Right, I'm not denying that what I'm saying can't be refuted. You: Remember, this isn't a debate, I'm simply describing my beliefs to you. Stranger: i was merely pointing out possible flaws... only by testing all possibilities can we determine the truth You: What the Christians don't understand is that we all share the same soul. Everyone will one day be like Jesus, no matter where along the line they are. You: They are so close to what I am saying, and yet they don't realize. You: Have you not heard them call themselves "children of God"? Stranger: i've heard You: The idea that we are all the same person in different bodies is never denied and even supported in the Bible. Stranger: well Stranger: can't say i agree Stranger: haha You: You might not agree with the belief entirely, but the point I was making is that Christian tradition fits with my theory. You: Christian morals are supported by a very, very weak system. You: They say if you do something wrong, just ask God for forgiveness, and you'll be saved again. Stranger: christianity and morals are mutually exclusive Stranger: see: revelation 21:8 Stranger: haha You: That passage doesn't support your claim. You: As I see it, it simply says people who sin will be punished. Stranger: but it also means, following your logic, that all would end up in hell Stranger: e.g. jesus being reincarnated as hitler, etc You: I didn't say the Bible was completely true. Stranger: so you're just cherry-picking? You: In a way, yes. Stranger: how can you take some parts as truth and discard others? You: I stated before that all religions are right in one aspect or another. You: I didn't say that all religions (or even just Christianity) were completely right. Stranger: and how do you know this? You: I don't know. You: What I do know, is that I know nothing. Stranger: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence You: Belief and fact are two very different things. People like to say one thing is the other, all the time. You: I, however, keep belief and fact very much apart. Stranger: but believing something without evidence is tantamount to self-delusion... You: Believing something is self-delusion if there is evidence to the contrary. Stranger: and it's baseless if there is no supporting evidence You: Baseless, but, not delusional. Never delusional. It might well be the truth. Stranger: i could say that i believe in a teapot orbiting the black hole at the centre of our galaxy... nobody can disprove this, but it's still a ridiculous claim You: Of course it's a ridiculous claim, and you know why? You: Someone would have had to manufacture that teapot and put it there. You: That doesn't make any sense. You: I see the point you've made, but, believe me, it's a very shabby analogy to belief about the origin of the universe and the meaning of life. Stranger: it's about the concept, the teapot was just an example Stranger: similarly, i could say that i believe in an invisible unicorn that is all-seeing and all-knowing Stranger: or santa You: I know, I'm familiar with the teapot theory. Stranger: it's all the same concept You: Honestly, it really isn't. Theories that make sense but are unprovable are much more likely to be true than theories that make no sense and are unprovable. Stranger: and you're claiming that your theory makes sense? Stranger: based on what, exactly? a set of unverifiable books from which passages that fit into your world view are selected, and the rest discarded? You: There is a great deal of mystery to some unanswered questions of life, like whether or not we have a purpose, or if there is a supernatural being who created us. There is no great deal of mystery to why there wouldn't be an invisible unicorn, Santa Claus at the North Pole, or a teapot orbiting a blackhole. Stranger: yes, there is a great deal of mystery as to the universe... but, unlike the unicorn, teapot, santa, tooth fairy, zeus, the abrahamic god and the sun god, we can figure out most of the answers using science Stranger: we know what happened fractions of a second after the big bang Stranger: we know that species evolve, and we have evidence to support it You: Did I ever deny the big bang theory or the theory of evolution, or are you attacking a straw man, sir? Stranger: i'm pointing out that we don't need deities or imaginary friends to explain the universe as we have the tools necessary to find evidence to determine what happened You: Did I ever say that my God put everything here? Or did I just say he let it roll as it would, like a clockwork mechanism? Maybe that answers your question why some parts of the Bible can be treated as folly. Stranger: none of this changes the fact that you pick only the parts that you agree with from the bible and discard the rest... with no evidence to support the decision of which to keep and which to discard Stranger: and, similarly, it also doesn't prove that the bible is true *at all* You: I believe my theory coincides 100% perfectly with science. There are many parts of the Bible which very much go against what science has proven to be true. Stranger: lol! Stranger: show me one piece of evidence for a soul Stranger: you can't claim something coincides with science without evidence You: Well, earlier you were stating a few facts about what scientists have learned to be true about the universe. You: The way you said it implied that my beliefs clash somehow with science. You: Coincides is the opposite of clash as I'm using it. You: It fits in between the cracks of the mysteries of the universe that science can't possibly answer, such as, is there a purpose to our existence? Do we have a soul? Do we go somewhere when we die? Stranger: so a "god of the gaps"? You: Essentially. Stranger: but there is no evidence to back it up You: As I said, this isn't a debate. I'm not trying to back it up, I'm simply telling you what I believe. If you don't believe it, that's perfectly fine by me, because my beliefs don't say you'll go to hell for not believing in them. You: Now, the main and most valid reason I "cherry-pick" from the Bible is because no part of it was or ever will be divinely inspired text. However, what they wrote and said about Jesus Christ may have very well been true. It also could be a pack of false and malicious lies, and I'm willing to accept that possibility. You: Most religions are systematical perpetual money makers. They frighten you with the prospect of hell, and then once you've bitten the hook, they drag you in and get you to donate all the money in your pockets. You: My beliefs are not influenced by greed for money. It's free from corruption, and free from the few lies told here and there that force you to shell out an extra $10. Like buying indulgences to absolve you from your sins, as an example. You: Sure, I could tell you to give to the poor or be nice to people, because you'd be doing it to your future/past selves, but that doesn't earn me anything. It's purely from the goodness of your heart. Stranger: i don't need beliefs to do that Stranger: i'm a humanist, and i donate time and money to amnesty... You: I didn't say you needed a belief to do that, but believe it or not, some people are so cruel and heartless that they actually do. Stranger: and some people do cruel and heartless things as a result of their beliefs You: Right, but where in my set of beliefs does it seem like it would be okay to do those kinds of things? Stranger: but it's not in human nature to consider long-term consequences Stranger: most people think a year is a long time, never mind a lifetime or ten Stranger: and many people are guilty of the "not my problem" attitude You: Most religions say it's okay if you mess up, just pray and ask for forgiveness. Not mine. If you believe the beliefs I do, then you'd have to believe that one day you would have to suffer the same way you make others suffer. You: Treat others as you would want to be treated has never been more accurate. Stranger: but if you're not aware of your past lives, then it's easy for people to pretend they didn't happen and that another won't either You: And that's true. So, maybe there is little consequence for doing what you do, and I'm okay with that. I didn't say or imply that my beliefs would absolutely stop any of its believers from causing harm unto others. You: The sad thing is, many religions do imply that. You: I should probably stop calling it "my beliefs" and just start calling it a "religion," because it very much is by definition of a religion. The only reason I wasn't inclined to do so is because I'm thoroughly dissatisfied with negative connotations of calling something a religion. You: That's why many people like to say, "I'm not religious, but I am spiritual." Stranger: try being an atheist You: I have been for the past 18 years. You: Well, at least, as soon as I reached the Age of Reason. Stranger: your beliefs are deistic, not atheistic You: This is a rather new belief for me. You: I used to deny the existence of any gods just as you do now. Stranger: oh, i see, so you used to be an atheist You: Precisely. Stranger: ah. well, i'm afraid i'm going to have to cut us short... i can't keep my eyes open - it's late here and i've got to be up in a few hours :/ You: No worries. Stranger: thank you very much for the conversation - it was very interesting You: And you're right, my current beliefs are very much deistic. Stranger: You: Have a good night. Stranger: cheers, you too. 'night Your conversational partner has disconnected. If I were to give a name to my religion, I would probably call it Progressive Reincarnation or Humanistic Progression. Any other ideas?[/quote] Quoted ftw.