The US Election, in my terms

Discussion in 'Politics' started by HighGrowMan, Aug 27, 2008.

  1. This is a run off election for evil.

    America is being fed either a 72 year old war vet that wants to fight, or an angel from hell that knows how to talk the jib.

    This election is a sham. The only candidate that's worth his salt is standing behind John McCain. Ron Paul.

    Because Ron Paul is the only one looking to give the people any freedom.
  2. Oh man, what an original opinion. Lulz at Obama being an angel from hell. And actually using the word jib.
  3. i agree. I also agree that every election the presidents will be more and more corrupt and just overall inefficient. And I could think of a million ways it will go down but basically america is reaching the end of its reign
  4. Freedom? HAHA.

    We live in a police state. 4% of the world's population, 20% of the world's prisoners.

    Ron Paul is FAR (And I mean -fucking far-) from McCain on policy, he's just backing his party's candidate.
  5. Oh god not these people again.... America is not a fucking police state -_-

    We aren't some fascist country the imprisons people for talking or saying things against the government.

    Here are two different definitions for a police state;

    1. [SIZE=-1]a country that maintains repressive control over the people by means of police (especially secret police)

    2. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The term police state is a term for a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population, especially by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional ...

    [/SIZE]Now the control the government has over us is no where NEAR repressive, infact we enjoy probably triple the civil liberties of most countries so that debunks the first definition.

    As far as the second definition, while you could make claims the government is repressive over some of our social activities(aka smoking), we still have a free market and free choice as far as politics goes. Secondly it is not really all that rigid, most pot smokers on a first offense get probation. It's not something I agree with, but it's not rigid like in a country like say... Thailand?

    And where is this secret police mentioned in both the definitions? Where is our version of the gestapo?

    I'm so sick of people saying we live in a police state, and that we have no freedoms. It just pisses me off when people don't see that they have soooo much more than any other place in the world and then they go around bitching and saying words that they don't understand the definition of and most likely just picked up from some ranting college professor of theres who deserves his job taken away.

    Also a quick note as to why we have 20% of the worlds prisoners... ever think it might be because we imprison people and other countries just execute them? Just a thought
  6. Jesus, what do you mean by that?! ;)

    Not a good figurehead for the Beast, eh?

    Just to clear things up: Ron Paul does not support John McCain.
  7. America isn't ending anytime soon.

    until 2012.
  8. #8 vc77, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2008
    Oh god, not these sheep again.

    Utter naivete. Anyone can parse wikipedia and form a biased opinion. You've done nothing special.

    What is your stance on FISA and the correlating capitulation? The Patriot Act? Our policies are slowly starting to take a totalitarian stance. Ron Paul agrees with me:

    When the federal government uses it's power to spy on and intimidate the public, it is moving towards totalitarianism. When the federal government steals elections, it is moving towards totalitarianism. When the federal government wages a war against public dissent, it is moving towards totalitarianism.

    Do you seriously need to me LIST THEM OFF?

    1. The Internet Clampdown
    One saving grace of alternative media in this age of unfettered corporate conglomeration has been the internet. While the masses are spoon-fed predigested news on TV and in mainstream print publications, the truth-seeking individual still has access to a broad array of investigative reporting and political opinion via the world-wide web. Of course, it was only a matter of time before the government moved to patch up this crack in the sky.
    Attempts to regulate and filter internet content are intensifying lately, coming both from telecommunications corporations (who are gearing up to pass legislation transferring ownership and regulation of the internet to themselves), and the Pentagon (which issued an "Information Operations Roadmap" in 2003, signed by Donald Rumsfeld, which outlines tactics such as network attacks and acknowledges, without suggesting a remedy, that US propaganda planted in other countries has easily found its way to Americans via the internet). One obvious tactic clearing the way for stifling regulation of internet content is the growing media frenzy over child pornography and "internet predators," which will surely lead to legislation that by far exceeds in its purview what is needed to fight such threats.

    2. "The Long War"
    This little piece of clumsy marketing died off quickly, but it gave away what many already suspected: the War on Terror will never end, nor is it meant to end. It is designed to be perpetual. As with the War on Drugs, it outlines a goal that can never be fully attained -- as long as there are pissed off people and explosives. The Long War will eternally justify what are ostensibly temporary measures: suspension of civil liberties, military expansion, domestic spying, massive deficit spending and the like. This short-lived moniker told us all, "get used to it. Things aren't going to change any time soon."

    3. The USA PATRIOT Act
    Did anyone really think this was going to be temporary? Yes, this disgusting power grab gives the government the right to sneak into your house, look through all your stuff and not tell you about it for weeks on a rubber stamp warrant. Yes, they can look at your medical records and library selections. Yes, they can pass along any information they find without probable cause for purposes of prosecution. No, they're not going to take it back, ever.

    4. Prison Camps
    This last January the Army Corps of Engineers gave Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root nearly $400 million to build detention centers in the United States, for the purpose of unspecified "new programs." Of course, the obvious first guess would be that these new programs might involve rounding up Muslims or political dissenters -- I mean, obviously detention facilities are there to hold somebody. I wish I had more to tell you about this, but it's, you know... secret.

    5. Touchscreen Voting Machines
    Despite clear, copious evidence that these nefarious contraptions are built to be tampered with, they continue to spread and dominate the voting landscape, thanks to Bush's "Help America Vote Act," the exploitation of corrupt elections officials, and the general public's enduring cluelessness.
    In Utah, Emery County Elections Director Bruce Funk witnessed security testing by an outside firm on Diebold voting machines which showed them to be a security risk. But his warnings fell on deaf ears. Instead Diebold attorneys were flown to Emery County on the governor's airplane to squelch the story. Funk was fired. In Florida, Leon County Supervisor of Elections Ion Sancho discovered an alarming security flaw in their Diebold system at the end of last year. Rather than fix the flaw, Diebold refused to fulfill its contract. Both of the other two touchscreen voting machine vendors, Sequoia and ES&S, now refuse to do business with Sancho, who is required by HAVA to implement a touchscreen system and will be sued by his own state if he doesn't. Diebold is said to be pressuring for Sancho's ouster before it will resume servicing the county.
    Stories like these and much worse abound, and yet TV news outlets have done less coverage of the new era of elections fraud than even 9/11 conspiracy theories. This is possibly the most important story of this century, but nobody seems to give a damn. As long as this issue is ignored, real American democracy will remain an illusion. The midterm elections will be an interesting test of the public's continuing gullibility about voting integrity, especially if the Democrats don't win substantial gains, as they almost surely will if everything is kosher.
    Bush just suggested that his brother Jeb would make a good president. We really need to fix this problem soon.

    6. Signing Statements
    Bush has famously never vetoed a bill. This is because he prefers to simply nullify laws he doesn't like with "signing statements." Bush has issued over 700 such statements, twice as many as all previous presidents combined. A few examples of recently passed laws and their corresponding dismissals, courtesy of the Boston Globe:

    --Dec. 30, 2005: US interrogators cannot torture prisoners or otherwise subject them to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment.
    Bush's signing statement: The president, as commander in chief, can waive the torture ban if he decides that harsh interrogation techniques will assist in preventing terrorist attacks.
    --Dec. 30, 2005: When requested, scientific information ''prepared by government researchers and scientists shall be transmitted [to Congress] uncensored and without delay."
    Bush's signing statement: The president can tell researchers to withhold any information from Congress if he decides its disclosure could impair foreign relations, national security, or the workings of the executive branch.
    --Dec. 23, 2004: Forbids US troops in Colombia from participating in any combat against rebels, except in cases of self-defense. Caps the number of US troops allowed in Colombia at 800.
    Bush's signing statement: Only the president, as commander in chief, can place restrictions on the use of US armed forces, so the executive branch will construe the law ''as advisory in nature."

    Essentially, this administration is bypassing the judiciary and deciding for itself whether laws are constitutional or not. Somehow, I don't see the new Supreme Court lineup having much of a problem with that, though. So no matter what laws congress passes, Bush will simply choose to ignore the ones he doesn't care for. It's much quieter than a veto, and can't be overridden by a two-thirds majority. It's also totally absurd.

    7. Warrantless Wiretapping
    Amazingly, the GOP sees this issue as a plus for them. How can this be? What are you, stupid? You find out the government is listening to the phone calls of US citizens, without even the weakest of judicial oversight and you think that's okay? Come on -- if you know anything about history, you know that no government can be trusted to handle something like this responsibly. One day they're listening for Osama, and the next they're listening in on Howard Dean.
    Think about it: this administration hates unauthorized leaks. With no judicial oversight, why on earth wouldn't they eavesdrop on, say, Seymour Hersh, to figure out who's spilling the beans? It's a no-brainer. Speaking of which, it bears repeating: terrorists already knew we would try to spy on them. They don't care if we have a warrant or not. But you should.

    8. Free Speech Zones
    I know it's old news, but... come on, are they fucking serious?

    9. High-ranking Whistleblowers
    Army Generals. Top-level CIA officials. NSA operatives. White House cabinet members. These are the kind of people that Republicans fantasize about being, and whose judgment they usually respect. But for some reason, when these people resign in protest and criticize the Bush administration en masse, they are cast as traitorous, anti-American publicity hounds. Ridiculous. The fact is, when people who kill, spy and deceive for a living tell you that the White House has gone too far, you had damn well better pay attention. We all know most of these people are staunch Republicans. If the entire military except for the two guys the Pentagon put in front of the press wants Rumsfeld out, why on earth wouldn't you listen?

    10. The CIA Shakeup
    Was Porter Goss fired because he was resisting the efforts of Rumsfeld or Negroponte? No. These appointments all come from the same guys, and they wouldn't be nominated if they weren't on board all the way. Goss was probably canned so abruptly due to a scandal involving a crooked defense contractor, his hand-picked third-in-command, the Watergate hotel and some hookers.
    If Bush's nominee for CIA chief, Air Force General Michael Hayden, is confirmed, that will put every spy program in Washington under military control. Hayden, who oversaw the NSA warrantless wiretapping program and is clearly down with the program. That program? To weaken and dismantle or at least neuter the CIA. Despite its best efforts to blame the CIA for "intelligence errors" leading to the Iraq war, the picture has clearly emerged -- through extensive CIA leaks -- that the White House's analysis of Saddam's destructive capacity was not shared by the Agency. This has proved to be a real pain in the ass for Bush and the gang.
    Who'd have thought that career spooks would have moral qualms about deceiving the American people? And what is a president to do about it? Simple: make the critical agents leave, and fill their slots with Bush/Cheney loyalists. Then again, why not simply replace the entire organization? That is essentially what both Rumsfeld at the DoD and newly minted Director of National Intelligence John are doing -- they want to move intelligence analysis into the hands of people that they can control, so the next time they lie about an "imminent threat" nobody's going to tell. And the press is applauding the move as a "necessary reform."
    Remember the good old days, when the CIA were the bad guys?

    All of these perpetuated by your blind patriotism. I salute ye, blind fellow!

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
    -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  9. VC,

    you do know that Obama (the man that you are voting for) also supports the patriot act, the endless war on terror, FISA, The federal reserve system, IRS, DEA etc.. right? Yet you call people sheep? I don't understand..
  10. #10 Deleted member 95373, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
    I've decided that since you hit me with a large amount I'm gonna break it down and reply to each individual point

    I'm glad Ron Paul agrees with you in your bullshit. I could probably find 1000 people that agree with me that the world will end in 2012, doesn't mean a DAMN THING. Who agrees with you doesn't fucking matter. As far FISA, while I'm not the biggest fan of the it the fact is it has passed. And not only did it pass, it was held up in lower courts as constitutional. Something I did get off wikipedia though;

    • 2008-07-09: Dodd's amendment calling for a striking of Title II (the immunity provisions) was rejected 66 to 32.[10] The bill itself was then put to a vote and passed 69 to 28.[11]

    So it passed in lower courts, in the house, and in the senate and was finally signed into law. However this isn't something that was slipped in at the end or middle of the bill where no one could read it. This was pointed out plain and simple and it passed. Essentially it went through our system, and passed. While it is not something that I agree with, just like republicans, it went through. Oh and on a side note, please refrain from calling me a sheep, I know for the most part what goes down and I don't blindly follow.

    Way to look down on people like they are nothing but animals, you have a one track mind set if you believe everything is predigested bullshit and that you are truth seeking individual. I know I know, don't believe everything you hear, but by the same token there is no need to disbelieve everything you hear. You sound like a conspiracy theorist....
    The information operation roadmap could either or help or hinder us depending on it's use, you see it in a negative light because of your opinion of the government. The rest is opinion about what you believe is going to happen, no actual facts are in this.
    Opinion opinion opinion. Of course those wars aren't meant to end, however did you take into consideration that perhaps things like the war on drugs, the war on terror, etc are used to the economy? As far as the suspension of civil liberties, if your referring to the patriot act, that came about after 9/11 and didn't have much to do with the war on terror so much as people being afraid after that catastrophe.
    Opinion... again -_-
    Opinion again..... recurring theme here. You have no evidence, no proof.
    I doubt these machines are anywhere as unsafe as you claim them to be. If they were any group of people(government or otherwise) could tamper with the machines causing anyone these wish to be elected. If the government is looking to control us like you say they are, I don't think they would allow for ANYONE to be able to do this.
    I agree with you on this point, however this is Bush, one president, not the entire government. Moving on...
    I agree with this point. Quick side note that I'm probably totally wrong on but; wasn't this used to find those republicans who were hooking up with kids, and John Kerry?
    Opinion, and they could have other motives behind the whistle blowing. I'd also like to point out, that this is the BUSH administration, not the government... again
    I agree with you on this point, but again, this is just Bush, not the government
    I'd like to summarize by saying, way to be a jackass. I am not blind, I understand the dealings that goes on in this government and I don't like most of them. However this government is not a police state, nor will it ever be. The fact is we have many freedoms in this land and even if you want to make the argument that the Bush administration would like to move towards tolitarian government, I would just like to say that the government entirely does not. Fact is we as a nation won't let it happen. While you make some good points, most of them are just against the Bush administration and the rest of them are just opinions and conspiracy theories. Thank you for gigantic post though.

    Oh and quick tally by me;

    2 of your points I agreed with
    3 of your points are directly at the Bush administration not this government entirely
    5 of your point are opinion and bullshit, not supported by anything but your negativity towards the government.
  11. August, although my post had nothing to do with McCain OR Obama, I've explained this to you on more than one accounts. I would not have said "and the correlating capitulation" if I was not aware of it. It pisses me the fuck off.

    As far as his position on the Patriot Act? I'm not impressed.

    And the War on Terror? Robert Scheer summed it up pretty well:

    But you're right. I'm voting for him. Trust me, it would be nice to just sit at home smoking collie weed ignoring this bullshit. Trust me, I would LOVE to. But I can't. I've lost too many friends and too much time to 8 years of failed Bush policy. Obama puts a frown on my face, McCain scares the living fuck out of me. I'm voting against McCain by voting for Obama.

    I'm glad you denounce your previous accusation of me plagarizing my college professors.

    Humans are animals. I was talking to you, not "people."

    You're right. I probably should have been referring to the Bush Administration and not the federal government. With our supreme court, house of reps, and senate in a right-wing headlock, the two coincide fairly well. In laymans terms, the one (Bush Administration) greatly influences the other (Federal Government.)

    You'd think with your opening statement (Oh god not these people again....) you would have expected a little more than tepid response.

    Yes, I'm a jackass. I was trying to be one. That's how I treat assholes.

    I can agree with you on is this statement:

    "Fact is we as a nation won't let it happen."

    You're most likely right. But that's us. The Bush Administration is doing everything they can to overpower us. Denying that, is blind patriotism.
  12. You know, when you said, "I'm voting against McCain by voting for Obama" can you not see that that is the idea?

    Obama comes off as a Liberal, except he's anything but a Liberal. He is a Liberal that blurs the line between the right wing and the left, so that nobody can even choose liberalism after him.

    Actually, in reality there is no worse leader than Obama. I would take McCain before Obama, because McCain isn't capable of pretending he's something that he's not.
  13. Haha, John McCain would be a very poor figurehead for the beast. He's far to straight shooting.

    George Bush is a straight shooter too... an evil one, but a straight shooter.

    I'm really glad that Ron Paul doesn't support John McCain, but he's still standing behind him because he's in the republican party.

    I'm not sure how it works in america and if he could get on the ballot if he was a libertarian, but to me that's what would have made sense.

    I guess he figured that he'd never have a chance winning the election as a Libertarian. But at least then people would have something to vote for.
  14. Oh come on :rolleyes:

    Karl Rove was a big fan of Machiavelli and Bismarck. They took a swing at a materials war, piggybacking and exploiting a disaster.

    They fucked up big time, trying to fly under the radar, and continued to wane and crash and burn, with various lackies jumping ship.

    With Rove gone and Bush only having a couple more months in office, it's just turned into a lame duck presidency.

    The ashes of his administration will be swept under the carpet, the damage will slowly come undone.

    A simple and unfortunate cluster fuck.

    I dont see try to sensationalize it.
  15. You are correct on one thing, George Bush's mistakes will be swept under the carpet. But unfortunately we haven't seen the last of karl Rove. He has already taken to advising John McCain.

    I am actually a little bit surprised that you are so comfortable with everything being so non-chalantly forgotten.

    Oh well no big deal, I mean liberty and freedom are just words anyways.

  16. Dude I'm not gonna lie thats some scary shit. What about Obama? He doesn't believe in the things the government is doing to Muslims. He wants to get rid of torture programs. I don't get why so many people seem to hate him.

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