Some of you know that i commonly recommend bagged Miracle grow to new growers that are unsure how to make or amend soil in outdoor grows. This recommendation evokes indignation with many growers, especially those that grow organic. They gasp at such advice and espouse shouts of amatureism!!!!!! I want to explain my recommendation. MY first grow was in the late 60's. At that time, their wasnt anyone to offer advice. Know one new how to grow marijuana and there was very little information about growing it. My first grow was in a cornfield which grows cannabis fine but it was only luck that it grew. From that grow, i determined that it needed conditions similar to corn... and it does. But we didnt know. We used 10-10-10 fertilizer for years and grew plants 10' tall with big yeilds. There wasnt anybody to tell us that cannabis needed special soil and nutes. Then in the mid 70's, the first "how to" books from Mel Franks and Ed Rosenthal came out and even though they were quite primitive in knowledge they were helpful. THOSE FIRST BOOKS RECOMMENDED USING RAPID GROW OR MIRACLE GROW fertilizers, so we all dumped our 10-10-10 and went with MG. Modern technology we all thought. The Mg was great and gave great results and every body was happy. In the mid 70's MG potting soil came out and many of us that wanted to grow in containers bought it to grow pot in and hooray!!!, cannabis grew just fine in it. For years we grew in Miracle grow potting soil and nobody knew the better. Then starting in the mid 80's, there began a strong orgnanic trend in gardening and by the late 80's, cannabis growers in cali and other places began to move toward the organic growing methods and shunned the chemica rich Miracle Grow and other synthetic fertilizers. These newbs that started growing in the mid 80's and later didnt know that cannabis growers had been using Miracle grow for 15 years with great results. These new growers learned to grow during the "organics craze" and its all they know and they dismiss MG users as unsophisticated or uninformed. Since then, the organic fad has taken complete control of the cannabis growing world and today, many believe its the only valid method of growing. It isnt. I want to set the story straight and present the facts as they are. They are as follows: If a side by side grow were conducted using any given strain, one grown using the highest quality organic soil mix available and organic nutes, and one grown in MG soil using MG nutes, there will be very little difference in the results of the 2 grows. Yes, the plants that had every nutritional need met by rich organic soil might yield an ounce or 2 more and be 6"taller, but all things considered and equal, there wont be much difference between the 2 outcomes. Thats fact., Miracle Grow, Sta-Green products work fine for cannabis and it grows well in the soil. The nutes are fine too. These products are balance and formulated to grow a wide range of plants. Both products are "1 size fits all" in nature, and of course that never results in "perfect" soil for any specific plant species, but in general, they grow many plants just fine and thats why they have been on the market and popular for gardneers for many years. They grow cannabis just fine too. Yes, you can do a litte better and maximize every potential the plant possesses, by creating perfect soil and using finely adjusted nutes and if that makes a grower happy then i say yahoo! But they shouldnt pretend thats the only way cannabis can be grown successfully because that isnt true. Im just sayin.....
Haha good story of MG soil clodhopper. Those must have been some tough times not really knowing how to grow. For the record, I'm in Europe , so MG or Promix are not sold here and I have to make my own soil with basic gardening supplies. I wouldn't use MG soil chems with seedlings though. I thought organic yielded less but tasted better. With my grow style, I have no other choice. Besides, mixing peat, lime, perlite and castings isn't that hard.
Hey Corto! It sounds to me like you had a similar task of growing without info. With no storebought soils available to you, you quickly had to blaze your own soil trail, probably without a lot of advice! Ill bet your first recipie was a bit different than the one you use now? Sometimes we have to move forward with "hope" as our main ingredient! If a grower knows how to make customized soil, the results will always be superior to a "one size fits alll" approach and i would recommend to all growers that they learn enought about soil to work with it. I rarely use MG anymore because there are better products and i make my own indoor soil because i can make it taste a little better and grow better/taste better, but MG does work reasonably well.
Haha got you man. You have a point. I was helped by GC a lot. I was granted the visit by a famous member and he showed me the way to go! I can use organics as I have a free supply of composted horse and chicken manure (my bases). Peat vermiculite lime castings and kelp I buy. I'm trying to make my own castings bin. You're right though the first years (almost 10 years ago now), I had to imagine soil mixes and liquid feed chems lol! I was thrilled to have some good bud though chems or no chems.
Nice story ol' wise one of the Forum. Your comments and advice are reasons why I hang out at GC. I'm amazed on how well you handle questions in GC, even if they come across as sounding incredibly amateurish. You have good patience and tact. Every year since the 80s, I have been using MG soil or MG fertillizer on my young plants. For me it's a good way to get my transplants a head-start in the wild. After transplanting, my plants receive only natural nutrients such as decayed leaves and fish. For my vegetable garden, I striclty keep it organic. Thanks for the well written thread.
I don't know why chicken manure has gone out of fashion as fertilizer. I know that in an organic sense as far as vegetables are concerned, there is concerns of hormone and other growth enhancers added to commercial chicken feed. Shouldn't matter with cannabis. I have one plant out of 5 that has nothing but miracle grow soil and Epsoma Garden-tone fertilizer from the big box store. Derived from: Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized Poultry Manure, Cocoa Meal, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Greensand, Humates, Sulfate of Potash, and Sulfate of Potash Magnesia. *Contains 2.2% Slow Release Nitrogen, plus a host of other non fertilizer microbial cultures as well. No extra nutrients added and it is the greenest and healthiest out of the group. Only thing I do to MG soil is rinse it well before using it and take all the non-composted chaff out of it first. I have had similar luck using peat, perlite, greensand, Dolomite, regular play box sand, Azomite powder and a handful of compost just to get things rolling. I mix my soil one month in advance, completely turning and aerating and checking the ph weekly until use. A lot of container gardeners are using MG with success and the most common complaint is that it has a lot of junk in it, which it does now, ever since it started being stocked in bulk with the advent of the big box stores and probably relative to supply/demand issues. The product is now seemingly rushed, at least with it's composted components being somewhat crude for many house plants. You can still use it, but it is a little pricey, especially if you are losing volume due to removal of the trash that's in it. There is some good bags of it here and there, but a manicured, consistent product it is not. As the microbes in your soil start to work, they can compost the non finished composted products in any mix and rob some nitrogen in the process and is why it is best to remove it. I'd swear that 90% of the problems associated with grows is likely due more to over watering/fertilizing than the type of potting mix used.
Thanks for this man, first time grower n i just didnt no what to do i just threw seeds into a coupke pots hoping they would grow. I now have about 30 younglings about 2" tall its all in 4 2 gallon pots so about 7 or 8 per pot. Im planning on transferin them out this weekend. I still live with my mom so i have to b discret about it so it may be tough. I didnt no what ferts to use. Everyone was saying dont use mg so i was going to go on with out any cuz im broke... Untill i came apon ur post i knew i had about 4 pounds of mg fert n i had some left over mg soil so thats what im using now. What do you recomend for spacing for each plant? And what is the best way to transfer plants from pot to ground?
I absolutely agree. MG is great especially for beginners like myself. In my experience, composted manure is the SHT. Literally. You never end up over fertilizing and it is a steady supply for the season. I've also mixed flower ferts and veg ferts of various brands and haven't noticed much of a difference between the 3. I prefer Poop because it's one easy haul. Set it and forget it.
For begginers I agree with you. Nutrients and all that can be overwellming when you are just starting. Anyone who tells you who has been growing for like 40+ years that you don't know what you are talking about is the moron. The best people to learn from are you old school guys. Thanks for paving the way for all us young growers. My first crop was a MG crop. No complaints. My knowledge is a little more advanced now. But for begginers I don't know why so many people on G.C. diss the stuff.
I don't know much about MG so go ahead and flame me but my problem with MG (the non organic stuff at least) is the unflushable nutes. Makes the bud taste like crap. My friend used to bring over bud and it used to be quite unpleasant to smoke. I would prefer him not to pack anything up honestly. I used chemical nutes but organic potting soil and my stuff was a MUCH better to smoke and really wasn't much harder (and the nutes may not have even been needed though I couldn't be sure since I didn't try). And "very little differences" I don't feel is valid. But this is all my opinion. Edit: On a side note. Just because someone said something 30 years ago means nothing when they are singing a new tune now. Not to mention all advice given commercially shouldn't be immediately accepted because their best interest is likely money they are making off what they are pitching (whether it be true or not). Jorge and Ed I am sure are still publicizing stuff that is complete garbage though most of there stuff is probably pretty good. I have seen comments by them that make them look like fools. As I am sure could happen with any human as we are all still learning (hence the importance I am putting on NEW knowledge).
Gotta agree with that yoctown. I am really only saying for beginners to use it. Not gonna flame you. Actually agree with both arguments. Personally I would never use it. But for someone who has no idea what they are doing with nutes. it's not a bad idea. Iwaslucky enough to have someone pretty much walk me through my first real grow. My first actual grow was in my parents back yard when I was like 16. 1 plant. The MG worked great for that.
Is MG Organic Choice good to grow in. Im doin my first grow and I have 1 cubic foot of that stuff, should i also get perlite to mix in with it? Im doin 1 plant (Hollands Hope) and want it to become a monster