I have faith: That there exists an intelligence beyond my rational mind. Because of my faith, I sacrifice my self. In sacrificing myself, my conscious will, a derivation of previously defined idea-structures, does not drive me. “Not my will, but thine, be done.” This sacrifice means that all ideologies that could possibly guide my behavior are set aside. I am as en empty shell, waiting to be guided by God, that force which exists beyond my rational mind. I sit silently, awaiting instructions, which come primarily through impulses. When an impulse arises, and makes itself clear, I act on it. It does not matter what I think about the impulse, and the action it is driving me towards. Not my will, but God’s. In faith, I become a strange man. I have no care for the world, and the ways of men, which their ideologies proclaim as proper behavior. In any moment, I may do anything. I'm at a complete loss as to what may come next. There is no way for my conscious mind to grasp the ‘right’ thing to do in any situation, for it is of a limited scope. My conscious mind determines ‘right’ based on pre-defined standards, and God is absolutely irreverant to these. Oh, the fear of making a mistake that lies in my humanity. This is why my salvation lies in grace. When I sacrifice my self, I give my self up to God. I give up responsibility for my actions. I admit the insufficiency of attempting to determine right and wrong based on any standards I know, and so I become as a child. God’s grace towards such a person is infinite. I will inevitably confront everything that I think I know, and through this God will continuously test me. To pass these tests does not mean adhering to so-called morality, as the religious establishments teach. The tests are passed through continual sacrifice, which means adhering to the immediate impulses given by God, with absolutely no respect towards pre-defined standards. This is the true way of the Son. It is not a path of the past, but it is indeed a path we must walk to this day, moment to moment. Do not be fooled by those who call themselves Christian. These are among the very people who create these standards, which we are to transcend. In the grace that is found through continual sacrifice, true life is found. This life is effortless, and utterly full, and complete. Do you have faith that there is intelligence beyond your conscious mind? Will you, then, sacrifice your ideological structures to it, and thus achieve grace? This is the path to the Life, called the Kingdom, which I rename Perfect Reality.
I don't really have anything to add, except to say I like this. Have you taken a look at any of the gnostic gospels? Particularly the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene? Both jive very well with what you've posted here.
I have read the gospel of Thomas...it was good, for sure...haven't seen the gospel of mary magdalene, though.
Of course, it could be said that merely following one's own impulses, whatever they are, regardless of the effect they have, is similar to those the serial killers follow when they do what they do. Many of them have claimed god told them to do it. At first, this was just a fairly flippant thought that came as I read the OP. I felt that while those impulses of the seeker may be the same, their energetic aspect, their vibrational frequency, would be very different from someone who follows an egoic impulse to kill. However, I wonder whether on some level, even those people are more in touch with the Universe then we realise. You could say that for the Universe to work as it does, we must be the instruments of its synchronicity. Sometimes it is necessary for things to change in unexpected ways in order for something new to rise from the ashes. Who's to say that those who create such havoc aren't just as much a part of the 'plan' in their own way? The difference being: we don't usually see it that way because of our own judgmental lack of sight. Just a thought.
I think that an individual is essentially going to do what he is going to do. Through acting out based on the ideas of the self, however, things simply 'slow down,' and he stays in the same place for an extended period of time. Through learning to live 'without mind,' you are able to more quickly escape pre-defined patterns, and step into new possibilities. As far as this thing about killing, and whether or not they are part of 'the plan.' I have always had this thing where I have been highly intrigued by people who have been considered 'bad' or even 'evil,' yet seem to have insight into the nature of reality. It seems as though I am supposed to learn to understand and accept that. In some of my most insightful times, actually, I saw that all of reality was this one absolutely ecstatic 'thing.' I actually felt a strong compassion for people who did bad things, because I saw it was part of the universal ecstacy, part of what makes the universe perfect, and yet I knew that others, even themselves, didn't understand that. I'm sure a lot of people may not like that viewpoint, lol, although it is the implication of what many themselves proclaim that they believe about the Universe. I personally do not have any such violent tendencies myself. That may even be why it seems important for me to accept...because it seems so foreign to me, but to have real understanding you can't just leave out such a huge part of existence like that.
Let me just add, since this is a thread about Jesus, that I think that is part of the biblical message. I think that is a biblical secret, involving Judas and Jesus. I think that Jesus told Judas to have him killed. I also think that Judas did not want to, but Jesus told him that it would be the only way to demonstrate perfection of faith, and overcome all difficulties in the world, up to death.
For the Universe to work the way some people believe it does, we are all part of the play. Good and evil is subjective of course, but even those we deem as being evil have their part to play, and without them acting in the ways they do, some things that turn out to be of real value may never come to pass without them. I'm not saying that anyone who wants to commit a heinous act should feel they can simply do so, but those who do these things, while they may cause pain and suffering at the time, in ways I can only imagine, can be the catalyst for change that only come to fruition at some later date, that turns into something very positive. You could therefore say that something that appears evil but leads to good, must have always been good on some level.
That's an interesting point. I have often felt that the Jesus story was part of a play. Either one that fulfilled the prophecies of those expecting them, or simply one that did so by itself. Because that makes more sense. Jesus would have known exactly what he was getting into. Either because he was aware of what was going on directly, in the moment, or he was fulfilling what he knew would play out this way, synchronistically, because he was capable of walking this path. Could someone else have done this, perhaps. But he saw the potential, and he chose to walk that way. It was he who was ready, or had been prepared, to fulfill that which certain people had seen was needed. He would have been party to all this long before this play was set in motion.
the guy they call jesus was never more than a man..... a student of the Egyptian mystery schools.... he never taught most of what his followers try to teach.... he was not made a god until the romans rewrote the book... the man did not teach his followers to follow him at all.... he taught them that they each had a tiny spark...a flame if you will within them.... this spark is the part which was once one with what most try and call god... he taught that all you need to follow is already within you when his story was rewritten it was done so to appease a pagan society the stories created by the oldest of tribes used to mark/describe the movement of the stars thru the night sky...these where the stories which where modified into the life of the Nazarene.... he was a man/// who was killed for telling people that god was already within them.... that religion leads you away from the truth within... stop following the words of men ....follow that which is within you
For those who take the Jesus story a little too literally, and it is a story after all, it stops them from seeing this. We all love a good story, and the more you can suspend disbelief, the more you can identify with it and its cast of characters. For me, it has never mattered what the reality of this story is, as it's the spirit of the message that is important. What makes this thread interesting, and what Journey is revealing, is very much about this for me. Jesus the man, the idea of the man, while he may have been an actual person, personified the idea that an individual could not only know god, reveal god, be god, but do so in a way that showed that each of us is just as much god as the idea of who he was makes him out to be. Had things not been rewritten, changed, usurped, for various reasons, this might be clearer, and the letter of the word would not have caused so many to act in ways that the spirit had no intention of causing. I love the idea of Jesus. He does not have to be real for there to be something very profound in it. And what is real anyway? Do I need a bone fragment with some DNA intact? Do I need proof of anything? Of course not. He is as real as you want him to be, and in making the idea of Jesus real, it becomes ever more real for you. Not so someone else will see you that way, look at you and make some proclamation, but for you to create a reality within, as that is the only place reality exists, that actually reflects the vibration of what such a thing means. It becomes far more real than any story can be, in more ways than one.
i often identify more with the mans suffering than i do with his message... the message is one which somewhere inside we already know... the suffering is what it sometimes takes to find those parts of ourselves... i am the way.... what was his way? to accept whatever came along ...and make the most of it along the way if we are to look for examples.... there was a certain balance in his life that most do all they can to avoid... the suffering.... without it there would not have been any great peace.... how can one know a single extreme without knowing its counter part... i have often thought of the pains of everyday life way back before modern convenience... most today could not survive... the suffering of people at the hands of other humans .... the pain the Nazarene took during his torture ...i am at times jealous that i cannot die in such a way... bleed in such a way... the masochist in me wishes to feel the skin split as the whip does fall.... to feel the pierce of the spikes thu my palms.... it is as if by living in this time now....i have been denied the oppertunity for true physical suffering.... and so i torture myself within my mind...within my dreams.... if the world refuses to tear me apart then i will damn sure do it to myself! the world...all its halfassed humans ...pretending to be so important.... thinking all their bulshit matters.... what a joke this world is connected to the world .....the internet in your pocket.... yet for all these wonders..... your lost still sleep in the streets ....abandoned....while houses sit empty... i cant even count the years i have been sitting in this chair looking out across this falled world and all the maggots who continue to feast upon the rotting flesh of what may have been....
To choose to suffer - that is a hard thing for most to accept. For we do everything we can not to feel it, even before it has had a chance to reveal its gift, we have it away, filling our minds with anything lest we feel some of its presence. But to suffer, just to feel it, cannot be exactly what Jesus was intending. That his suffering was needed only as a result of the attitudes of those around him, that such a man could not be allowed to be who he seemed to be, or the idea he represented, and as a result, the cruelest acts should be levied upon him to crush it out of him. But his faith in choosing, knowing, that he would need to endure the flesh at its weakest, in order for his spirit to transcend it, was what makes the idea of his suffering so pertinent. To want it, to need it, makes him a masochist. To accept it as necessary, as what is, makes him who he is.
What purpose would this suffering fulfill? What would it prove or reveal to you were you able to experience it? That you could handle it, as he did? That you need to be able to do so? Was Jesus all about the suffering or was the suffering only necessary as a means to an end? The ultimate faith in accepting the reality of god not having anything to do with the flesh?
i dont see the suffering as central to his message at all.... it is just a part of the story which always calls to me.... sometimes i do feel i need to suffer.... no reason...just what i feel i already know i could handle it...could do it.... the only purpose for me is experience it it leads me to see that we were given this flesh to destroy it to use it up and take all it has to teach us... i cannot say why it is that i am always attracted to pain.... as i mentioned earlier it may just be the masochist in me which is attracted to these ideas... of coarse he knew what was to come.... and he left the shores of Egypt where life had been good to him.... not unlike moses before him... knowing each moment is fleeting ... knowing the flesh is week and impermanent... sometimes the pain takes me away from this world completely... other times it is only the pain which holds me here.... no he...the jesus guy....was not all about the pain.... nither am i.... yet it is a major part of my story....and his....
i choose to suffer again and again.... up and down.....round and round.... it helps me to attain escape velocity... to break free of the gravity which pulls me down i would rather not sacrifice my pain.... in other worlds i have no pain.... but in this world ...i need it
Perhaps it was only through the suffering, and the acceptance of it, that something could be realised that could not have been were it not so. But that realisation having been realised, the need to suffer like that is no longer necessary, were it even possible today. For no matter how heinous an act one might do, crucifixion and the things that came before it is off the table. Yet, this need to suffer intrigues me. For it is so much a part of who we all are. Through our suffering we come to know the truth. Through suffering we come to know things we might never know without it. Suffering is essential, and who amongst us can say they have never experienced it? Seems to me my dirty friend, that you have something inside you that is not quite revealed that is looking to emerge and be free, yet needs the right moment in which to do so. You're instinctively looking, wanting, needing that moment, yet so far it does not come. It is not time. You are not ready. Or it cannot happen that way, not that way, as it must occur as it must. The Jesus story reveals many things to us, but the suffering cannot be a requirement for everyone, as it was for him. Yet may still have some reality for someone who having gone through it would be capable of realising what he did?
We must suffer to the degree that we identify with particulars in the conceptual world, material world, or in our notions of self. This identification with a particular creates a false limitation, a self-created closed system, that is unreal. Thus we must face the fruits of it, and since although it is self-created and unreal, we experience suffering to the degree that we believe its reality. Thus Jesus was killed. This represents the ultimate sacrifice, as in the ultimate transcendence of beliefs in any sort of limitations, or ultimate reality of the material world. This is why I believe he asked Judas to kill him. The belief that we are limited by the continuance of our physical body is sort of like the most ultimate belief of limitations and material-superiority we have. It is the final thing to be overcome. Thus he wanted to be killed, to prove that even the most extreme limitation we conceive of is unreal. If this is unreal, it goes without saying that all other limitations are unreal. And these limitations stem from identifications, stemming from the self-identification, hence the concept of the sacrifice.
To release the self through transcending the self, by letting go of that which appears to contain the self, but does not. To know the self as only doing this could reveal. Yet, even though many have chosen to take their own life, and some have done so under the guise of spiritual sacrifice, the letting go of the body will come as easily as the removing of a favourite slipper at some point. No fear need accompany this, although for some, the physical has decayed to a point where a certain suffering has set in long before this does. Perhaps even this is a form of that suffering? To give up this life for one's beliefs, in order to make a point, to ourselves or to others, seems unnecessary in some ways, and yet being willing to, truly willing to, can only ever be realised by actually doing so. But unlike Jesus, who without the suffering, would not have had the same impact. Do we as individuals, still need to test ourselves this way? I know I have felt myself at death's point before, even taken myself there, but never in a way that I knew for certain would result in physical death, whatever that word means, only a death of something, and indeed something has always died, as I am different afterwards.
I appreciate that you take what I am speaking of here, death, in a serious, not only metaphorical way. That is good. I do not believe intense physical suffering or death must befall us. I think that is the message of Jesus, and the Son. He literally went through physical suffering and death, so that we wouldn't have to. Now here the idea of Jesus being literal or metaphoric totally blurs, but that is the message. Now, I have my own unique world-view, in which I see the world, including very 'normal' things like music and social trends, as being an equivalence to, and a playing out of the same elements, as the 'mythologies' or religious/spiritual teachings. To give a solid, real-world example of this, I think of Kurt Cobain killing himself. I'm very into music, and I believe it is an outlet for deep truths about reality to go through, in a way that seems to be just a normal part of culture, so people don't generally see its significance. Now, as I see and understand the music, Nirvana is one example of a band that put out a lot of songs that express deep understandings about reality. The 'vibe' of his truths seem to associate with God and the Son, Jesus. So, I see every person as being like a symbolic expression, blurred between 'real' and 'metaphor.' In a way, it's like we are pieces of art. Kurt Cobain, and the band Nirvana, were a work of art that was meant to project certain truths about reality through music, and its associated with the underlying message behind the Jesus-story. In his story, in his life-art, it ends in his self-sacrifice, as a literal suicide. Not so different from the Jesus story, where Jesus is killed, I believe at his own request. Anyways, this 'real life' example is another way of trying to demonstrate the reality of it all, the reality of the physical death, so we don't sidestep the issue by thinking of it as entirely metaphoric, and not consider the reality. So we must understand the reality of the potential of death, and yet its ultimate un-reality. In this way, I do not believe it is necessary for us to go through the same fate.