Saw the Atheist Lounge and thought GC could use a similar place for GC's theists to discuss their philosophies and speculations about a higher power/God/universal whatever/what have you (I prefer and use the term God for the sake of ease). To start, let's discuss what we believe in and what rationale we give for those beliefs. Include how you would define God. If you identify with any organized religions, which and to what degree? I personally believe in a lot of things. I believe in logic and rationality. I believe that spirituality and religion without logic and rationality are but mere fantasy. That's why I'm an agnostic theist, because there's no proof, so I can't act as if my ideas are fact and can apply to everyone unless they're supported by evidence. If something makes sense logically, then I agree with it, but if it doesn't, I shy away until I experience it in some way for fear of irrationality. I identify with various teachings across all organized religions. I believe they are all basically half-ass interpretations of a single truth that have been convoluted and depraved. I believe in truth, a single, objective truth. When people teach that God is all knowing, I think of objective reality and how logically, despite our personal perspectives, there is fact regardless of interpretation. I feel as though we were intended by God to strive for rationality, but our ancestors were uneducated and relied too much on fallacies to spread the idea, so it was corrupted over time. I believe in compassion and that we are meant to live compassionately. Compassionate living is at the core of every religion despite convoluted contradictions caused by later additions to justify things like war. If a creator exists, and I'm as unsure as anyone, then He also created logic and all that is wrong. To ignore logic or what is wrong and rely on the concept of forgiveness as a crutch isn't something I agree with. I believe that when wrong occurs, we are supposed to use logic to learn from it and better ourselves. I believe morality is logical and not something you can teach with broad generalizations. I'm going to stop there cause it's extremely hot in my room, so I'm going to go in the house for a while because there's air conditioning.
I believe in the very real possibility of a god. Although maybe god isn't the right term. I believe something is behind consciousness though. A bearded guy in the sky? Maybe, but I doubt it. I think it might be possible for a force or being to be behind this.
You see I don't see my belief as truth/right, but I'm not agnostic because I absolutely believe in a Creator, I know its not fact, and I have an omnistic and really panetheistic view on God, I'm Catholic and a Christian overall, but like studying other faiths other than Christianity probably more so than studying Bible, Science effects my beliefs just as much as a holy book aswell,
Being agnostic theism doesn't mean you don't absolutely believe in a creator, it just means you recognize that since there is not proof, there is still a possibility that He doesn't exist and that you would be willing to concede if evidence that contradicts such a belief arises. Agnosticism, which is being on the fence about believing in God is not the same as agnostic theism, which is being on the fence about making a factual assertion that God exists when there isn't any proof.
The more you know. Lol I thought all Agnosticism was just that you can't prove or deny, so I have faith in neither, but wont rule out anything, But I wonder if their could theoretically be proof again God, since the word is so diverse, As with pantheism (I'm for panEtheism ) they believe that God is synonyms with universe, Seems difficult to disprove a view as such, if at all possible
Well that's agnosticism in itself, but agnostic theism and agnostic atheism are different from agnosticism in itself. Yeah, I have a feeling that someday we'll be advanced enough to come a lot closer to grasping the truth and will be proving a bunch of different things, but because of the ambiguity of the term god, I don't think that's what they'll call it. Like they'll probably just end up calling it the universe or whatever. lol I kind of like the idea of God being the universe. It helps remove some of the paradoxes in that almost all of religion claims that God is the creator, but always was, so you could say the universe has always existed and creates itself. There's still a bit of confusion concerning whether or not the universe has legitimately always existed, though. Like, prior to the big bang and everything was just a little dot, does that count as still being the universe? As far as disproving it, you'd be correct, it's impossible because then it's a matter of attributing a label to the universe rather than speculating. No one could prove that from you perspective you're not referring to the universe and I think it's impossible to prove the universe doesn't exist. lol
I often wonder about the singularly that existed before the bb, I personally think that this particle could have been just as big as our universe today, I say that because how big is a "dot" in the grand scheme of things? Are we just a dot? .... But if someone views God as the universe, the only way to disprove them would be to find an alternative source (unless if we don't exist)...which would probably another type of God force to some people,
Well, I think the idea is that the dot was about the size of an atom, but incredibly dense, so there wasn't any space between any of the matter prior to the big bang. That doesn't mean that we're still a dot, it just means that everything in the universe minus the space in between the atoms and such all fit into a little dot about the size of an atom at one time.
Yeah but if universes are still getting made today (multiverse) I wonder how big is big, Have you ever heard a theory that sounded as if every atom is its own universe, or that our universe is just an atom within a larger field of universes,
Well, multiple universes would make the pantheistic religions happy. lol I've heard the latter, but it was more of a science fiction thing than a theory.
[quote name='"KenjaminK"'] Well, multiple universes would make the pantheistic religions happy. lol I've heard the latter, but it was more of a science fiction thing than a theory.[/quote] The multiverse to me sounds exactly like a rational reincarnation, I mean it would make some sense, after death you just be in some alternative consciousness in an alternative reality, The multiverse has such widespread support even though on the surface it seems pretty "supernatural" to me, And yeah every atom being a universe is more of science fiction than theory, But if time is able to move sideways instead of front-back, Their would basically be infinite outcomes of each choice, shits crazy
I know, right? I feel as though the idea of multiple universes is just out there as the idea that there are multiple Gods or multiple planes of existence such as heaven and hell. The second you associate an idea with religion, though, atheists irrationally close their minds to it. I feel as though we should be rational and open minded regardless of our personal views. Just because you don't believe in one thing doesn't mean you can't consider and understand the other, but there are too many people who accept and explore the multiverse theory why ignoring the possibility of a heaven or hell when to most theists they could be the same thing.
Yeah I'm exactly on that same type of thought, So many people associate ANY theist with being a fundamental Christian , its pretty annoying because these things that we have gained evidence for (like multiverse) sound like spiritual beliefs, and religions like Buddhism don't sound crazy at all. But as soon as you say God they seem to plug their ears and shout "IM NOT LISTENING IM NOT LISTENING LALALALA " hahaa When all your trying to say is, "hey, I know the things you've heard from theism, but not all of it is that crazy, you know, God can be..." and that's when they shut you out
I definitely feel like I've had spiritual experiences and everyone has the ability to have them. I was just talking to a friend last night about how we experienced all sorts of crazy shit when we were little kids that most people associate with schizophrenia and how as we got older our "hallucinations" went away and as we talked about it more our conversation got extremely intense and we experienced things similar to what we experienced as kids for the next hour or so. It was extremely spiritually profound to say the least. I was also was an Atheist for years until I really just started thinking about people in general. I thought about the organs in my body, the way they're arranged, all the white blood cells and red blood cells and anti-bodies and all this shit keeping me healthy, my nervous system, how my brain works, my skeletal structure, my skin, eyes, hands, feet, my senses, how there are so many species designed in such complex ways, how there just happens to be males and females able to reproduce and continue species, combined with the age of our planet and how none of the planets around us have anything even close to some of our simplest lifeforms. I really think the purpose of humans is to channel the higher power, to connect with it in some way, not really worship it, but just be aware of and use it I guess... I also think really hard about how much I've been influenced by my culture, language, and technology. Over the years we process so much information and watch so many TV shows, movies, read books, etc. and I think nearly all humans are so out of touch with who and what they really are that culture and society has become a big joke. Every time you talk to someone, you're just making noises. You're using your mouth to form sounds that other members of your species understand as words and conversations are just two animals making noises and gestures at each other. Things like this in life are what truly amaze me and I wish more people would just open their eyes to how amazing life around them is. And even how lucky they are to exist. If your father and mother hadn't done every single thing they ever did in their life exactly the way they did, there's a good chance you wouldn't have been born. We all started out as a sperm floating around with other sperm and who knows how many times our fathers jacked off and killed countless sperm cells, which easily could have been us. And then we just happened to be at a good vantage point when he ejaculated in our mothers to swim to the egg. And now here we are. Maybe none of this means much to other people on here. But I've found that if you start talking about these kinds of things to people who you would never expect to understand, and act dead serious and excited about it, you'll be surprised about how deep human conversation can go. Anyway, yeah, I'm a Theist.
God definitely has the possibility of existing, but only because it is an unfalsifiable assumption/assertion. I believe if God is real, he will find you. Looking for him will only end in tragedy and doubt. All Chanceist Agnostic Buddhist over here
[quote name='"staples"'] We all started out as a sperm floating around with other sperm and who knows how many times our fathers jacked off and killed countless sperm cells, which easily could have been us. And then we just happened to be at a good vantage point when he ejaculated in our mothers to swim to the egg. And now here we are.[/quote] Thank you for all of that. I'm agnostic atheist by the way. I like to read other people thoughts on how the universe came to be, and some of your views are very interesting. I think it's possible that a superior god/gods or energy(?lol) or something created the universe, however if this is true I don't believe any of the current major religions and their teachings are correct. I mean, we've been on this earth for so long and all the religious teachings have been passed on all this time by people, and we all know people aren't perfect. Somewhere along the way something got changed, if it wasn't made up to begin with. Whatever the truth is about our worlds creation, it happened so long ago nobody really knows or should claim to know the truth with absolute certainty. So yeah, that's my semi-intoxicated take on all of this lol. I tend get new views all the time so maybe I'll post something completely different next time.
[quote name='"KenjaminK"'] Yeah I really haven't known what to say since that. [/quote] Heh, there, I edited my post to get it started lol
Not religious (anymore), lean to the atheist side of things even though I don't really go out of my way to change others' minds. I believe what I want and will enlighten people if given the chance/or are argued against. I believe in people, the power of love and friendship if valued accordingly, and the earth on which we exist and the surrounding universe which owns our souls.
[quote name='"Ninja20p"']God definitely has the possibility of existing, but only because it is an unfalsifiable assumption/assertion. I believe if God is real, he will find you. Looking for him will only end in tragedy and doubt. All Chanceist Agnostic Buddhist over here [/quote] Unless if its already in each of us, just waiting to be tapped into, lol But how come you always seem to be straight atheist in other threads?