Can we accept that we can never know it all? Can we accept that the more we discover, the more we discover there is to discover? Can we accept that there is no end to this madness? That we are always going to be in a state of searching for knowledge which in turn only creates more knowledge? What more can we know? Where does knowing extend to another dimension, or the other dimension extend into our knowing? What is it to know? What is it think? What is to be be? How do these three play off of each other?
A very trippy thought...and I must disagree with MeIT. Knowledge is an infinite thing. Knowledge is only the understanding of that which is exists, and all that exists streches well into the relm of infinity.
I think there is a finite number of things to study, but the more we learn of each of those things the deeper our knowledge of them becomes. Finite number of things with an infinite deepness to each of those so depends on how you want to look at it if you can say there is a limited amount we can learn. Then there is linking each of those things together because afterall, we live in a closed loop system.
Not a bend, but the actual end, can - and is regularly - reached. There's no need at all for it to be a continual search. MelT
You're mixing two concepts. We might say that knowledge in terms of science is infinite, there will certainly be other things to learn. In a spiritual sense though, many reach a point when there is nothing left to know. Enlightenment is knowledge, understanding the base of all reality. Anything that then emerges within that reality is known. Know the base and know all. Let me give you an example. Suppose you imagine reality (including beyond our universe) to be a large cloud of smoke. Let's imagine that the smoke moves, creating eddies and currents, which in turn give rise to apparent shapes. We may look at the shapes and imagine we see a universe, cars, people, planets - all with a life of their own. But what we see is still only smoke - and knowing that removes the lure and impact of the smoke universe. You cant take them seriously, and you see the movements as a temporary, hardly real manifestion, and nothing ever more than the smoke they arose from. With more understanding of its nature, the smoke universe dwindles mentally to such a point that it is no longer the focus of your awareness, all you can see is smoke, without any particular characteristics, and peace arises. By knowing the base you know all. Enlightenment (in terms of single experiences of Kensho') is learning what the 'smoke' is and perceiving from the POV of the smoke itself as the whole, looking in on the illusory shapes of the smoke universe. You understand the base, and know that everything that seems to emerge from it doesn't really, there is only smoke. Know one, know all. People reach the end and peace every year and remain in what is termed 'simplicity' and 'no more learning', either through an eastern tradition or their own efforts. I wouldn't say it was commonplace, but certainly a handful a year reach it. MelT
Ah! I understand now. But is being aware truly the same as knowing or understanding our world; finite or infinite?
48 In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired. In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped. Less and less is done Until non-action is achieved. When nothing is done, Nothing is left undone The world is ruled by letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering 33 Knowing others is wisdom; Knowing the self is enlightenment. Mastering others requires force. Mastering the self requires strength. He who knows he has enough, is rich. [FONT="][/FONT]
I'm not sure. The search has appeared quite infinite to me, so far. --And at a semi-recent point, all my new 'realizations' began to come from feeling, not thinking.
nice^ The only source of knowledge is experience. ... Imagination is more important than knowledge. In matters of truth -Albert Einstein The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. Socrates Wisdom begins in wonder. Socrates people in general (obviously not all of us)will never be satisfied and always search for more no matter how much they have or learn....its never enuf
Yes, in total. I can't impress this idea enough, realisation is direct knowledge,e experienced from the point of view of all reality. MelT
Good post. The funny thing that I can never get across is that we don't have to keep learning, we can know it all and reach an end. The 'secret knowledge' about reality has never been secret and most people joining an eastern tradition will learn - usually without realising it - not only that knowledge, but everything they need to know to experience it first hand in the first week. But as you say, we always think there's more. There's an old Chinese Buddhist proverb that goes something like 'The monk leaves home to find enlightenment, never knowing that the jewel (enlightenment) has been sewn into the hem of his coat all along.' Enlightenment isn't something that needs to be distant and needing years of austerity and meditation to reach. Understand reality correctly now in this second and you're well on the way to reaching it. The problem is that people in the west (me formerly included) think of meditation as being based on focussing the mind, stillness, morality and 'no-thought'. Above this thread we have a fine meditation thread full of meditations and advice along those same lines. But what isn't understood is that those methods are just an introduction, a way of getting to know mind and learnign what it can and can't do. It's really a set of basic tools that aren't entirely necessary for everyone, but are taught to everyone just in case they are. Real 'meditation' is nothing like that and involves not reaching states of mind and experiences, but understanding reality in a particular way. Do this correctly and its worth years of sitting in traditional meditation. The problem with meditation as a whole is that you may well be able to reach states within it, but they will tend to leave when you come out of meditation. In higher forms though, what you're transforming is your normal life, the life you have when you're not meditating. Life itself becomes continual meditation, continual bliss, with no effort at all, just by understanding reality and transferring that understanding directly to your world-view. For some this can take a few years, for others it can be more or less instant, but there certainly is an end - 'Satori' (full realisation), where everything is known and there is no more to do. MelT