The Reluctant Anarchist

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Shade, Jan 19, 2010.

  1. The Reluctant Anarchist

    by Joseph Sobran

    I identify very closely with this, as I kind of feel like I'm in the transition of 'Constitutionalist-Libertarian' to 'Anarcho-capitalist Libertarian' at the moment. In any case, thought it was a good read to share. Enjoy.
     
  2. He met Rothbard himself, eh? Nice. Sounds like he knew all 20 anarcho-capitalists in the world!
     
  3. I liked the article and that guy definitley describes me fairly well, too. I have been saying for years that the state is just a large-scale gang with a monopoly on force.
     
  4. Now the question is: why do you think getting rid of the state, but not the people who control it, would change anything?
     
  5. Getting rid of people isn't really a viable option for me. Getting rid of the state will get rid of the current mechanism of control and power. Of course there will always be people who strive to control and have power over others, but at least we've gotten rid of the monopoly on force.
     
  6. Getting rid of the monopoly on force is great and all, but then you just have multiple competing forces. How does that achieve anything?

    Also, good luck getting rid of the state without getting rid of people. There are many MANY people that will defend the state until death. How do you propose to deal with these people?
     
  7. #7 Arteezy, Jan 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2010
    As an anarcho-capitalist, I believe in the free market. Do you really need me to explain how competition and the profit motive works?

    I'd rather not deal with them. I don't think humans were meant to live in groups of 300 million. People just want to live out their own lives and most of them don't really care about people who live 1000 miles away. I'd rather that they leave me alone and I leave them alone. If they won't leave me alone (aka initiating force), then I will be forced to use my own political power. :p

    What I mean is I would like people to be able to determine their own fates. If all the lefties want to go live up in New England and make a hippie-commune to bring about world peace, that's fine. Just don't mess with my shit (property, labor, rights, family, etc.).
     
  8. This issue is why I dream of one day disappearing into the wilderness to escape this joke of a society. With a few seeds of course.
     
  9. Competition isn't a bad thing by itself, quite the contrary. Competition facilitates innovation, efficiency and wealth, generally speaking.
     
  10. Nah, that's ok. I've heard all the rhetoric many times.



    My point was, that if you were to attempt to establish your anarcho-capitalist society, you would have to destroy the state. So whether you want to deal with them or not, you're going to have a huge military to fight, corporations that support such military and state, etc, etc. It's not a voluntary fight. It's guaranteed to happen.

    And I'm not talking about lefties, I'm talking about the state itself. Lefty hippies don't control the state, although I know right wingers tend to think otherwise for some reason.
     
  11. Right, for the people on the winning side anyway.

    Personally I don't really see the difference between one oppressive force and many competing oppressive forces. They both contain hierarchical centralized power structures and are therefore not anarchist.
     
  12. I don't have all the answers. Knocking down the state is not an easy task as there are many powerful interests in it; however, this isn't going to change my political philosophy. I'd be happy to compromise with the state, but I'm not going to just abandon anarchism because there isn't an easy way to achieve it.

    Also, I never said hippies control the state. I'm under no delusions of the sort of people that control the federal government today.
     
  13. Well, us lefty anarchists have been confused by anarcho-capitalist philosophy for quite some time so I was simply trying to better understand it.

    I guess the major difference between our brands of anarchists (besides the obvious economic issues) is that we know we have to violently fight the state, as we have before many times. (Spain, Mexico, Korea, France, Italy, Russia, Ukraine, etc, etc) I'm not trying to get you to give up on anarchy, I'm just trying to make you aware of what will be required of you in the future.

    The fact that there has never been an attempted anarcho-capitalist revolution leads me to believe that they don't really understand the necessary procedures to establish their dream society.
     
  14. No, not really. If you're poor, for instance, and generally not doing very well, you're still better off being poor in a market economy rich with competitive business because the surplus and quality of goods is going to be higher while the cost of these goods is going to be lower. Additionally, there will be more employment opportunities, greater charitable giving, and other benefits like this. So no... not if you're just on the 'winning' side, whatever that is.
     
  15. Anarcho-capitalism, or modern libertarianism, is still relatively new in comparison to other political philosophies--or contrarily widely unknown/misunderstood, but it is rapidly growing from what I see, especially considering they're the only recognized third party (however minor in comparison to republicrats)... though admittedly some libertarians lean more towards a minarchist mindset, as opposed to anarchism. Left anarchism, on the other hand seems to have either stagnated, or dwindled, at least in America--I can't even remember the last left anarchist I've known.

    If you want to learn about it anarcho-capitalism/libertarianism, go to mises.org for starters.
     
  16. Maybe because lefties do run the state? Neo-con is just another name for the most extreme left you can get, but this is besides the point.

    Anarchy requires nothing more than people who understand that they are their own sovereign person and that the state has no real control over them. It does not require the state to be overthrown. In fact, you can not install anarchy. Removing the current system would usher in a new system, which is not what anarchy is about. Anarchists want no system, and the only way to have no system is to ignore everyone else.

    Fuck the police, fuck the government, fuck everyone who tells me how to live my life, because my life is mine. The decisions I make are mine. The consequences of the decisions I make are mine to hold, as well. There is no third party in my decision making process, and I don't like to pretend otherwise.

    So, you all can continue to fuck yourselves over, but I'll ignore your ludicrous laws and enjoy myself. Come smoke a bowl with me when you change your mind... I mean let us not forget what this government has done to people for something as simple as smoking a plant. And this is supposed to be the best country in the world? :rolleyes:
     
  17. Yep...

    Economic stratification that results from an unhindered free market is merely representative of the differences in ability that are bound to arise in such a diverse species as human beings. The only way this can be "corrected" is through coercion that forcibly extracts wealth from those who have earned it.

    Don't get confused by the system we have now where it APPEARS the wealthiest, fittest individuals have found themselves in a position to exploit the less-abled masses... this huge difference between the rich and the poor is because of regulation that gives preference to the wealthy, not in spite of it.
     
  18. I would assert that the author is slightly off base when it comes to summarizing Ss. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.

    Just slightly, but the difference is important for someone considering being a form of anarchist.

    We must recognize that Augustine and Aquinas saw the state as having a very specific aim, purpose, and goal. Namely ensuring the common good and ensuring justice.

    Our modern states end up being incredibly divorced from the classical understanding of the state, since the modern state ends up primarily revolving around things like monopoly of force and sovereign rights to power.

    Without a conception of God as the supreme authority from which the state rightfully derives its authority, with the notion that the state is itself inferior to the Kingdom of God, the state will inevitably degrade into a mere monopoly of power.

    To be a true anarchist against the corrupted and fallen governments of this world, one would need to be a Christian. Unless the state and the citizens are servants of the Eternal Kingdom, they will end up being alligned against the Eternal Kingdom. That is why modern states have become so unjust.
     

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