The Politics of Climate Change...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by svedka, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Isn't that exactly what I've been trying to get across? It's not just one theory that has been verified and proven. There is a multitude of continuous data points and observations that have been made throughout the last century if not longer, which all point in the same direction, thus giving us a relatively high degree of confidence in the predictions and justification of climate change.
    We are not looking at just the temperature or just the CO2 concentrations.
    The entire landscape of data gathered from multiple fields of science points in the direction that there is a dramatic shift in the trends of climate change. There are probably thousands of theories and observations that have been tested, retested and tested again and scientific consensus is that the planet is indeed warming at an alarming rate, the weather patterns are indeed becoming more extreme and more frequent.

    Even your interpretation of Popper's theory seems to fit with what scientific research is telling us.

    I'm not sure where you got the 3% figure from, but to me that's exactly the problem with trying to apply philosophical concepts to tangible data. In most cases the results of the observation are binary and even though underlying experiment may contain a degree of uncertainty, when you take a statistically significant amount of data the total certainty should increase to the point where we arrive at a simple yes or no answer.

    Otherwise, regardless of the subject, we'd be going in circles trying to prove or disprove the theory and validate or invalidate underlying principles of observation.

    To me that's simply not realistic and coming back to what we know today, based on countless experiments of the past century, it would appear that our predictions in the field of climate science as a whole are rather accurate and at least follow the predicted trends. If anything in the direction of greater certainty than the contrary.

    The problem with the whole philosophical argument is that we can tweak the interpretation of the the concept to the infinity and not make a step in any direction. I prefer to deal with tangible data, rather than argue about philosophical interpretation of such data.
     
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  2. I am not sure where to go with this,

    1. More into the foundations of science and epistemology in general

    2. What you think you know and what data lead you to believe as you do

    3. If the claims you made above have validity

    Going through all three would take quite a lot of time, I am not sure how valuable you think it would be?

    If you are here to pursuade me to believe humans are the primary/most significant cause of global climate warming, I am all ears, but it better be real science and not a bunch of arm waving.





     
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  3. I think going down this path would be a pretty big waste of both of our times. Having a philosophical debate, IMO, is going off topic.
    Secondly the interpretation of Karl Popper's theory is a lengthy topic all in itself. I don't really know what else I could contribute from my perspective.

    I couldn't say that humans are a major contributing factor to the climate change, I do think if it wasn't for our ignorance we wouldn't see as drastic of a change in trends and overall a negative impact on the environment. Likewise, feedback loops that have always existed are now reinforced and showing more of an effect due to pollution, deforestation and general disruption of various ecosystems.
    My point has always been that we can (especially now) try to shift towards a more sustainable way of life. We should also try to lessen our impact on the environment by working with it, rather than against it. I don't know if there is anything that needs to be proven using complex theoretical approaches and constant measurements and testing.
    Fossils fuels are no longer viable and we have better ways to generate energy than via extremely disruptive approaches.
    Beyond philosophy and theoretical applications, there is also common sense. And for whatever reason many people seem to abandon it.
    Lastly, politics should be nowhere near this issue, because they always hinder progress and only create a platform for unnecessary debates.
     
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  4. I agree with every single thing in this post.





     
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  5. Another short sighted moronic move by the "stable businessman genius"... The so called "pro life" party (actually pro birth) really isn't pro life at all... The orange wrecking ball continues to swing... But it's good news for Elon Musk, Tesla and the E-vehicle industry... The uncivil war continues..

    "In the early months of the Trump administration, automakers pleaded for — and appeared set to receive — some relief from fuel economy standards that they said were too difficult to meet.
    But newly released government emails show how a coalition of groups that reject established climate science quickly muscled into the picture, urging the administration to go much further and roll back the rules entirely and characterizing the automakers as their opponents in achieving that goal."

    Climate Change Denialists Dubbed Auto Makers the ‘Opposition’ in Fight Over Trump’s Emissions Rollback
     
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  6. The thing is that regardless of the politics and such "groups" lagging behind in the last century, the industry is moving forward, thankfully. I could be wrong, but I believe that renewable energy sector added more jobs in recent years than pretty much any other field. Likewise many car makers woke up to the fact that people are switching to buying electric vehicles and now Audi, VW and even GM are all going to be coming out with electric vehicles that are performant, sexy and do not cost a whole lot more (if not less) than gas counterparts.
    India and China are leading the way in clean energy adoption. I guess the air had to become literally unbreathable for the Chinese government to realize that no matter what, they too have to breathe the same air. India, to my knowledge, is simply moving from zero to one (a term and book by the same name, coined by Peter Thiel, who as far as I know is a conservative). For India there's nothing to fight over; they weren't all that progressive in their fossil fuel energy sources, so now they are just simply building what's more attractive financially and makes more sense logically.

    The US is going to become a third world country (or developing nation) if we don't get our government's head out of its ass and start moving towards the future. I'm really glad to see that individual companies are simply saying "fuck it", we'll just move to renewables and not wait for any bureaucratic resolutions.

    There is still a lot of work to do, but overall I'm optimistic based on such recent developments. We'll get there, hopefully sooner than later.
     
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  7. Alaska breaks heat record on the 4th of July by 20 degrees!

     
  8. Obviously fireworks caused that global warming

     
  9. You're much better at anarchy then you are at comedy.
     
  10. Wizard..Just so you know..The ocean is so much cooler this year off of the pacific NW that there are no tuna showing up in any numbers worth fishing for. the tuna water is kinda hanging off shore this year. It seems like global cooling has been in effect where I live. That should be comforting for you to know.
     
  11. Drain the swamp! Er, White House!

     
  12. Extremes in weather is predicted by climate scientists as evidence for climate change. Thanks for your data point.
     
  13. Just goes to show that people don't really understand how climate works. Local weather is not climate.

    Just because you stubbed your toe and it now feels "hot" don't be surprised that you are not immune to sunburn.
     
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  14. MOAR! No need to drain the swamp, flood the mother fucker!

     
  15. Evidence for climate change

    Warming
    Cooling
    Extreme weather
    Normal weather
    Rain
    Drought
    Cat videos on YouTube

     
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  16. Are you a climate professional ? I have been waiting to talk to one about when a grow zone 9 might turn into a grow zone 8 so I can possibly start growing grapes instead of blue berries. I have 8 acres of pasture I would like to develop into some kind of revenue generating products.
     
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  17. Sorry at the current rate of warming you will go straight from 8 to 13b

     
  18. Is it a surprise to anyone that a self described anarchist is in a state of denial? lol
     
  19. I'm not a "climate professional", but I play one on Grass City.
     
  20. Yes, please explain how that makes sense.

     

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