The new cold war!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by stoned budda, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. #1 stoned budda, Aug 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2008
    It looks like the cease fire is over, on the news they just reported that both Russian and Georgians are firing on civilians, and Russia is moving on the capital.

    Whats next the Ukraine?

    Wheres all the protesters, no war for oil crowd, wheres amnesty international? Are we going to let this happen?

    I believe this may very well be the next coming of the soviet union.

  2. Where is the U.N.? Sittin on their hands. Russia needs to be dealt with, or they will just use force to get their way.
  3. can the UN really do anything here? Russia is a security counsel member with veto power.
  4. Umm, the Georgians started this, remember? They used rocket-artillery on the civilian population of South-Ossetia. In an attempt to scare the ossetians away from their ancestoral home so that Georgians could gain a majority population there. We call this ethnic cleansing, and last I checked, we are against that.

    The Georgians started this in the middle of the night with heavy guns against a civilian population on the night before the Olympics opening ceremony. They started this war unprovoked. South-Ossetia have been under de-facto self rule for the last 16 years.

    Seeing as most (near 90%) living in South-Ossetia carry a russian passport, it did not excactly require a genious to anticipate that the Russians were not going to stand idly by and watch as their nationals are being slaughtered and driven out of their homes and cities in droves.

    The Georgian government took a huge gamble. Now they lost. And will have to pay for it. Not only will South-Ossetia break free proper and rejoin Russia, but also Abkhasia, another (ethnic) region of Georgia that is not happy being under Georgian rule.

    The current Russian regime is governed by real-politics. They are not stupid enough to let this escalate beyond Georgia. They also know that the UN and US won't do jack-shit. The UN cannot do anything, since it supported the Kosovo break-away from Serbia. The precedent is set. The US cannot do anything since it is militarily overstretched already with ongoing occupation in Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention the US designs of war with Iran. Or the fact that the US is technically broke. Imagine if Russia and China decided not to lend the US any more money by the simple expedient of no longer accepting US dollars as payment for their goods?

    That is called leverage. The Russians got it, the US don't.
  5. Where's SuperBush, the hero of the downtrodden masses yearning to be free?

    Shouldn't he be sending Condoleeza Rice to the fire with a can of gas about now?

    Oh, yeah, she's on her way, that means peace should begin in about 100 years.:D
  6. The UN has been reduced to a bunch of in effectual neutered douche bags, speaking of which i can.t for the life of me understand why we still foot the bill for those free loaders.
  7. The U.N. Security Council has a veto-seat for Russia. Nothing doing. And NATO... I guess it doesn't think much of sovereignty either.

    Damn it, I really have to read first.
  8. I'll have what he's having.:hello:

  9. Maybe because you don't. :rolleyes:

    But really, if you're going to be throwing around such a distinct opinion, you should at very least, do the minimal research, so you can sound like you have a clue about... y'know... facts.
  10. If the UN is a bunch of douch bags, then why should we have invaded Iraq for Saddam breaking douche bag UN sanctions? You state in another thread that Saddam was violating sanction after sanction and that made it okay for the US to invade Iraq yet the UN are a bunch of douche bags? I don't understand. They are douche bags but yet we should enforce their douche bag sanctions?
  11. I dont care if we give $1 fuckin dollar, we get nothing in return. Nothing
  12. You get your "automatic" and "universal" human rights.
  13. Again, you do no research and make a claim that illustrates your total ignorance on the subject.

    Let me just give you a small purview of what America gets and how it's benefited and would otherwise not;

    Now that's just a short list of things that have directly benefited the United States. Many of these have saved billions of dollars, millions of lives and have contributed greatly towards a more unified global culture.

    I mean, if you want to get into it more, the United States' contribution (among many other countries) have helped to establish dozens of effective peacekeeping programs all over the world.

    Not to mention the absolutely huge amount of humanitarian work the UN has done and accomplished in it's history. Economics, health, agriculture, infrastructure, disaster relief and much more in dozens of countries.

    The United Nations is definitely not without it's massive failures, clusterfucks as well as pointless and ineffective bureaucracy. But there is much more to it. It isn't something to be abandoned because you feel like it's cool to be all anti-establishment.

    So, please, do your homework.
  14. You really believe the UN has anything to do with us having those rights. The UN is going the way of the league of nations.

  15. Since you are so knowledgeable in these things, then maybe you could tell me why the league of nations was a failure?

    Could it be because various regimes did not want to play by civilized rules, like say Japan and Germany? And if I am not much mistaken, weren't those two nations also aggressors in what later became known as WW2?

    And now you are telling me, us, that the UN is bullshit because of what excactly? That the UN is a hinderance in your dream of US dominance of the world? A world where the US can do whatever it pleases, because, in your words, it is the greatest nation on earth. Tell me again how that is different from the views of imperialist Japan and nazi Germany, who essentially broke the league of nations.

    You're in over your head here Stoned Budda. Empty rethoric and regurgitation of your arrogant nationalistic bigoted views won't fly very much when met with actual arguments. Arguments you have no clue how to counter besides basic play-ground tactics of name-calling. I could be wrong, though you have yet to prove it.
  16. The League of Nations failed for the same reasons the United Nations will fail. Just as the League of Nations lacked its own military so does the United Nations. They both depend on the superpowers ( Today the United States) to enforce their resolutions and sanctions. Just as we find today with the U.N., the League of Nations had trouble getting the member countries to go along with or supply military might to enforce resolutions and sanctions, they were reluctant to do so because the sanctions hurt their own dealings with the sanctioned countries. Plus there was a pacifist attitude following WWI, no one wanted to take military action, as Mussolini stated "The League is very well when sparrows shout, but no good at all when eagles fall out." This appeasement and pacifism proved to be the Leagues downfall and they were unable to prevent the aggressions of the Axis forces.

    The U.N. is just as ineffectual, its laughed at, resolution after resolution go unchecked because they are a joke, and although the United States provides only advisers for the "Peace Keeping" forces in reality without the military might of The United States of America backing their resolutions they are an over funded and over staffed version of the red cross imo.

    Oh, remember oil for food, lol.

    The U.N. is in a state of financial crisis - Some countries fail to pay their dues on time. Others have withheld payments as a way to exert political pressure or to make a political point. So how does the u.n. attempt to force member to pay dues? They issue sanctions on the member country, which does nothing but make life even harder on the people not the leaders. No State or private company could function under such conditions, with Member States continuing to ask more and more of the UN, even as dues are withheld.

    Look at the chart below, i know that richer countries generally pay more and poorer countries less, but there appears to be a few prosperous countries missing from the top ten, how odd.

    Top 10 Member States in assessment for the UN regular budget, 2005

    Assessment rates/amount

    Country(per cent)($millions)United States22.00362.7Japan 19.47279.6Germany 8.66124.4United Kingdom 6.1388.0France6.0386.6Italy 4.8970.2Canada 2.8140.4Spain 2.5236.2China2.0529.5Mexico1.8827.0

    Then there's the atrocities committed by the so called peace keepers which are to numerous to list so here's a link for you.
  17. #18 Sam_Spade, Aug 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2008
    Yet strangely enough, America agreed to that.

    Can you be more specific? This seems more like a non-sequitur than a validation of your original point.

    And that's relevant to attempts at peacekeeping how? You see the same types of thing in almost any military force on the face of the planet. It doesn't invalidate the effort and what is actually achieved by these operations. More of an unfortunate and troublesome side effect of military deployment.

    I mean, I know how much you love America and all, but if you really want to get into it and apply your fallacious logical consistently;.... Haditha..

    I mean, do you understand the fallacies you're invoking here? Or do you genuinely understand but ignore and invoke them anyways? It's an honest question.

    And I'm curious -- are you actually going to acknowledge the fact that your previous statements were entirely incorrect? Or are you going to continue being intellectual dishonest and just gloss over it and make NEW claims?

  18. One of the most well-reasoned, lucid, and well-put-together posts I've stumbled across on the 'net lately my friend, and I learned a lot from it.

    I thank you. :cool:
  19. GOD bless you both. It's such a relief to be in a "place" where people disagree with each other like THIS instead of ..

    "You suck."
    "No, you suck."
    "Well, you suck more."
    "Well you suck <some unmentionable and disgusting object>."
    <discussion does downhill from there, if possible>

    I thank you both for restoring a little of my faith in Humanity. :smoking:

    Keep tokin'.

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