I have spent a large portion of my short life searching for meaning. Events early on in my life caused my whole reality to completely fracture. Maybe you can relate but imagine being an extremely sheltered child with no idea about death or how the world really works and then within an afternoon have all of that fall away. Nothing was safe from this fracturing. My faith was destroyed, my family in ruins, even my personality was changed. Even though I was not physically harmed, gone was the outgoing happy child, in his place was a devoid husk and a blank stare reflecting nothingness. That is all I saw in life after these events, nothing. There was no meaning to anything. We as human beings were just part of a biological system designed to pass on our genes and die. Obviously I cared little for what this implied my humanity was already destroyed it didn't matter. In fact I almost felt enlightened, while most try there hardest to avoid the cold truths there whole lives I had all the lies(exaggeration life is full of lies) stripped from my life before I was the age of ten. I would be lying if I completely gave up on god though. I lost faith but that is different. It was more of thought that god exists or could exist but he obviously cared little for us. In fact its not that I did not believe in god it was that I hated him. I consider myself agnostic. After these events I became obsessed with science. It was only natural that I would fall for its truthful seduction. It gave answers. Answers that made sense and were for the most part proven. I never had any intention of finding meaning in science it just fit my new mode of thinking well. In fact most of science supports that life has no inherent meaning. However something started to bother me when I took my first advanced biology course during the same term of a statistics course. Statistics had me thinking of probability and in Biology were were discussing the origins of life. Being a science nerd I was well read on the space and the fermi paradox. I realized then the odds of me sitting there thing about the odds that I exist were astronomical. For the first time I viewed something that resembled god. [Before I go on I want to clear some stuff up, I know mentioning god is probably ruffling some of you atheists out there but this is not a I found jesus story. When I mention god it is not some man in the sky.] This is not some over simplistic explanation to describe something to people who barely register over a monkey's level on intelligence. My self discovery was something many physicists and mathematicians discover and it is why many very very smart people say science does not disprove religion. The way I have heard it explained is that "I found god in the numbers". It was the realization that the real time probability of everything existing at this exact time for us to observe it is nuts. It is incomprehensible. I delved into physics and it further got me thinking. For example we are all stardust. All of the heavy elements outside of hydrogen and helium are created in stars and are not released until all those stars die and explode. So everything we are made of has been inside a star at some point. So in essence we are the universe, we are not within it we are it. We are the result of the universe somehow reorganizing itself so it knows it exists and can look back on itself in awe. So what does this all mean? Well even after all these realizations I still feel there is no meaning. I tell this to people and they always say, "that is too depressing". That is where they are wrong, it is the most uplifting thing possible. For inherent meaning to exist that would mean that we all have set fates, there is someone in the sky manipulating and giving us meaning. But if something is giving us meaning through a fate then life really has no meaning, it is a contradiction. There has to be no meaning to life because that frees us. I see a lot of people searching for meaning in the world and they are looking or there fate when in truth they need to look inwardly and around them. They need to live in the moment not in the future or past and then they will find meaning. Think about yourself how despite any hardship you have experienced you were the fastest sperm out of millions of other sperm. Look at your pet and think how did that thing evolve, also what are the odds that it would be born to be taken care of by yourself. I hope you see now meaning is not something that can be found because it was never really lost. We are what give anything meaning. Without us, without conscious life there is no meaning to anything. It is just a system like all the other systems that is constantly leaning towards entropy. It is my belief at this time that god is not some all powerful being but a culmination of everything. We are in essence god. We are beings that are made up of self organizing matter composed of cosmic dust that are able to look and observe our own universe. If that is not a definition of a god like figure I do not know what is.
all existence derives from a common source; a singularity of eternal energy and infinite potential. never at fault, with the prime directive- ‘to be’
#1. I am sorry to hear that you had a tramatic event in your childhood that shook you so fundamentally. I to have had a troubled life, and seek to learn to fill the void wich was created after those events. #2 what you said of stars is only partiall reality. Iron and all elements on the table above it form through nuclear fusion in stars. Everything else is created in nuclear fission when the iron kills the star. Or in labs that form the last few highly unstable elements that decay very quickly. #3 you were not the fastest sperm, probably. The first sperm to reach the egg usualy exaust their energy breaking down the outer layer of the egg and die. After the outerlayer has been broken down a bit, that is when a sperm can break through and fertalize. Life, seems to be the greatest exepmtion from the law of entropy. And many scientist atribute this to pure chemistry. Because all life we know is carbon based, and carbon is the easy whore of the atomic world. It will pair with almost anything, and is plentiful because of its ease of creation in stars. I agree with the vast mojority of what you are saying. I consider myself an agnostic atheist. But to say that we are close to being gods sounds silly to me. Maybe its because i veiw the word god from a litteral standpoint, and i attribute a lot of closet based skelotons with the whole god concept. But that is just my perspective, and i hope you continue to seek knowledge to find meaning and beauty in this chaotic world.
Fuck everything that everyone says, My life used to be meaning less.... But then I discovered peenslang in cali It is what it is Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum mobile app
Thanks for the post! 2) Well if you want to get technical about it all elements below iron are made inside the star through fusion and all elements heavier than iron are made in supernova. Iron is the last stage in almost every star except for maybe the supermassive ones. The reason is the Iron is the lightest heavy element that takes more energy to form than it releases. Once Iron is made in the core of a star the star typically has about 10 seconds of life left. 3) Nothing is exempt from entropy. It is why death exists. Life may seem like an exemption and maybe it is headed towards that end but on the molecular level all the molecules in our body are subject to entropy. Everything else I can't argue with. I know the god thing sounds silly but I am not saying that I feel like a god or anything or individuals are gods. I am saying we are all god. It makes perfect sense. Why else would god not listen and just fuck with everyone because we are the same thing as him/her/it. Can you answer your own prayers? Everyone is on there own journey and my views can change tomorrow. I am completely open minded and I take everything in stride. If I were to pick one organized religion I would probably choose pure Buddhism because of the middle way which is pretty much how I live but I also think Buddhism has been corrupted like every other religion on the planet.
I must have misread your original post before i responded, and after re-reading it was clear that you know how stars work. But I do stand by my interpretation of life being seemingly exempt from the laws of entropy, for now. Because while it is true that the individual will inevitably perish, as long as the individual breeds and passes its genetics on it will eventually become more complicated. I am not saying an individual is not subject to entropy, because we are. I am just saying that Life itself continues to become more complicated through time, not more simple. I do admit that ultimatly though, Life will sucumb to march of universal time. We are, after all; congealed energy in the form of stardust toiling away our lives on a mote of dust orbiting a non distinct star, in a insignificant galaxy among billions of others forever destined to our eventual non existance. "If everyone is specail, dosen't that mean non of us are?" or, if everything is god, dosen't that mean that nothing is god? I understand what you mean, but i think there needs to be a better word than god. Gods thusfar tend to be uncaring, egotistical, thought policing, imoral asshats whose various names have caused the death of millions. And your concept of the universe is much to grand and beutiful to need to carry that sort of baggage. I don't have a better word for it yet either. But god just seems to small for what you seem to be explaining. If I had to choose a religion to follow, it would probably be a version of lavay satanism. Because it is how i already run my life.
I totally understand what you mean now and I guess life itself would definitely be an exemption to entropy as a whole. I also agree that the word god is more of a stand in for something that is difficult to describe. Sometimes I wonder if people in the past felt what I am feeling now and the descriptions and creation of god forms were a way of simplifying the feeling so others could understand. I am in no way describing a god like figure. I think a better way to describe it would to be a unifying force kind of like the force in star wars. But yeah I actually dislike the term god because it is too simply, in wording and definition. Also this may sound controversial but right now everyone is debating about rights. My right to this, my right to do that, equality. In my honest opinion none of the above really exist. Rights only exist if you can defend them and equality cannot exist in an egocentric capitalist model of society. Equality is being gone about all wrong because the debates come from a self centered base. "We are all special" mentality is right but in nature it isn't always true. It is also flawed because it is human centric and does not take into account the earths well being. I know this sounds counter intuitive but I do not think we can reach true equality until we all accept that we are nothing. Once we accept nothingness then we will all find meaning and we will realize that equality can occur.
Nice post! I dont buy the idea that we are stardust. But the observation that the universe is intelligent i find quite reasonable. I am with ezak, everything comes from and will probably return to the infinite potential. Is that god? Or is there a being that is also a result of the infinite potential? Lose Your Fear and Free Your Soul or The Mysteries Of Life You'll Truly Never Know
Man is not God, we return (decompose) into earth, not stardust. And somewhere along the lines you have completely misled in your search for the meaning of life if you hate your Creator.
No, YOU can not explain life without a god. I can. There may be gaps in my knowledge, but i do not fill in the gaps with supernatural explanations. I simply don't know everything. But, i am not ashamed to admit that. But as far as i can tell, there is no god. Please, if you will, present some imperical evidence to sway my mind. If you could factually prove the existence of a creator, i will change my opinion. I believed once, so if evidence can be produced i could believe again.
Ok, two questions, which I'll ask one at a time: Is the universe governed laws, principles, and order or random chaos?
I can't say God does or does not exist as there is no way to prove it one way or another. I don't believe in God though, because like I said.. no way to prove or disprove God, so it is a moot point. I will say that life can be explained. Just because you personally don't understand abiogenesis doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't. We may not know the specifics of how life spontaneously formed from inorganic material doesn't mean we don't have a pretty good idea of the natural processes behind life. I mean.. do you personally know the specifics of how God created the universe? I highly doubt it, yet you still believe. The scientific explanations for life are rather interesting.. and I personally don't see why one can't believe in God and be open enough to understand the natural processes behind life. After all, if God were real.. the natural processes are his doing. If he were real, abiogenesis and the appearance of life were all part of the plan.. yet all too often people with faith ignore the details of his plan since they typically clash with their belief. If God were real, he would want you to understand the natural, scientific explanations of his design so you could understand and admire it more. By denying the facts we uncover about life, you're denying your god.
Let me give you some assistance on proving the existence of Alahym (God) by posing the a couple of questions that I'll ask one at a time. Is the universe governed by laws, principles, and order or random chaos? Secondly abiogenesis hasn't been observed unless you can show me organic material (plants, bacteria, etc) that was born out inorganic material (plastic, rust, etc.,)
Asking a question isn't proving God.. lol, the way to prove God is to.. you know, prove God. Provide proof to prove God, not ask a question. As for your question.. I see it as the universe is governed by physical laws that came to order through chaos. It isn't one or the other.. it is order through chaos. That is the nature of chaos.. a complete mess where order arises from. And you're right, I can't show you abiogenesis. It is a process that takes millions of years to come together. Scientists are getting closer and closer to replicating abiogenesis in the lab, but out in the universe.. it takes millions of years. Since I can't show you abiogenesis, I guess you have no reason to believe it.. but why don't you show me God creating something? Since you can't, I guess I have no reason to believe it. Science is a hell of a lot closer to replicating abiogenesis than any follower of God is to showing God create life.
Chaos is defined as complete disorder, meaning no order can be arise from something that is without. So with that being said...name one thing that can be objectively observed as order from chaos. I'll wait. A babies that are formed in the womb are done by the Most High but I bet you think women are responsible for that. Lol.
Of course order can arise from chaos.. the mere fact that chaos doesn't have order in itself means that there is room for order to come to be. A good example of order from chaos is traffic on the highway. While you're in the traffic, it feels like a cluster fuck of a chaotic mess.. but if you were in a helicopter above all the traffic, you would see the order and patterns of it all. And I don't know whether to laugh or feel pity that you don't know how babies are made. It's not like they spontaneously form within the womb.. lol, there is a process behind it that should have been taught to you in elementary school.