The Logic of Constitutional Apologetics

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Shade, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. #81 clodhopper, Apr 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2012
    Jimi Thing, I have read it along with most of the history surrounding it and the autobiographies of the men that wrote it. Ive read the federalist papers as well.

    You would be correct that "god" is not in the constitution, but you have to keep in mind that the values of our nation are expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution is merely an administrative document outlining the structure of the goverment.

    In the Declaration are the words, "all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights". Those rights are enumerated in the constitution.

    But more specifically Jimi Thing, lets consider the basis for our rights and our nation. Our founders built this nation on upon the philosophy of liberalism. Wording from John Locke, the father of liberalism is copied directly into our constituiton. Locke was a christian philosopher and liberalism is a christian philosophy. There are a number of aspects of liberalism that form the basis for our nation.

    Locke stated that god gave every man the right of free will. He notes that in the bible, god said to Adam and Eve, go forth and do what you will. He gave them the free will to live as they chose. He told them they could choose the path of rightousness and evelasting life or they could eat from the tree of knowledge and live as outcast. He did not try to stop them from eating the apple nor did he try to stop Able from killing caine. Locke felt that god gave every man the right to live his life as he saw fit and for it, he would be judged in the end by god himself. It was not the place of man to judge. Also specific to liberalism is a belief that govt should protect the god given rights of the people and for the ownership of private property, a very radical thought in those days.

    In our nation, you can swear, get drunk, lie, adulterer and break nearly every 10 commandment and not break any laws. Our founders believed that if you sinned, god would address that on your judgement day, but it was not the place of government or society to do so. Supposedly in the US, we only limit individual freedom when it begins to usurp the god give rights of others: Ie, You cant kill someone or steal from them and deprive them of their rights.
     
  2. What "values of our nation"? People have values. Nations have laws. The Declaration of Independence holds no legal or authoritative weight today.

    Yes, John Locke was a Christian, and his philosophy influenced our constitution. The U.S. Constitution took some of the good ideas he had and divorced them from the crazy ones. What Locke believed and what the founders believed is irrelevant. I could pull out a bunch of quotes by Thomas Jefferson denouncing religion and the bible, just as I'm sure you could find quotes of him saying the exact opposite. If you want to believe that your rights come from God, that's fine with me. Labeling liberalism a "Christian philosophy", however, is just ignorant.
     
  3. Why dont you google "John Locke". You will read that Locke was a christian philosopher and his philosophy is based in christianity. Im not sure what you consider to be "christian" but if thats not it, im not sure what would qualify

    One of the biggest problems we have as a nation is that so many like you dont know and even worse, dont care about the values our nation was built upon. They are not only represented in the bill of rights, but in the declaration as well. Its sad that you grant it so little value.
     

  4. Oh good... I was waiting on the edge of my seat for your response.
     

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