[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cd36WJ79z4&feature=player_embedded#]YouTube - Symphony of Science - The Poetry of Reality (An Anthem for Science)[/ame] Scientific endeavor is very different than religious dogma. EDIT: I'll contribute more to the conversation (rather than posting videos) after a few days. Loaded on papers and lab reports at the moment...
Completely irrelevant, but hilarious. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxQU2ib6sW8]YouTube - Family Guy's Hitler[/ame]
Your making another mistake in thinking that a "deity" is some kind of man who has created everything. God is the Infinite Eternal UNIverse. It has an intelligence/consciousness to it, in the sense that it can do various things. Every atom has a form of very slight intelligence in that it behaves the way it is supposed to, there is "life" in it. There is nothing dead in this Universe. Also, it is silly to think our universe is the only one, and God being the Infinite Eternal Being that universes bang out of, and the true UNIverse (meaning the infinite space that ALL things are contained within) is the being who causes this bang. There is a theory that our universe banged because of 2 multiverses colliding. This very well could be true, but it doesn't answer anything about creation. What created those multiverses for them to collide and produce ours? If you read tales of creation, they all allegorically show EXACTLY what science theorizes. In the bible story it says that in the beginning the universe was void and without form. This is true, science now acknowledges that the "ether" is the form of matter that all matter is created from by changing in vibration, and the ether in space does not have any type of form, it can't bee seen or detected, but it can be moved through so it is there. There is no such thing as "nothing". So to say that the universe was void and formless, and then "there was light" aka a BANG of light, is exactly what science theorizes. I don't understand how some people can be so shallow as to not ponder in absolute awe of Infinity and Eternity, this space that the laws are contained within. Everything in the universe works according to exact laws, such as physics, there is intelligence to it as it is orderly and not complete chaos, everything works according to a specific order/set of laws. This "God" is the highest consciousness/intelligence, so high that we cannot even comprehend Him, only His laws. It is not some bearded man in the sky, but the living thing that the universe(s) exist within, are emanations of this God. To think that the way the multiverses came into existence is a product of complete randomness is completely foolish, because if this was the case we would never be able to understand anything about it. The specific way that the universe works, the Laws, are proof enough that the All is the highest of intelligences. We are apart of that Being in that we exist within it, the same way all of your thoughts exist within your mind. "In the beginning their was the Word, and the Word was God" Theres alot of truth to this statement, it refers to quabbalah. The power of words is incredible, and it's not the words themselves, but the way the words are said. You can see that sand will form into patterns at certain acoustic notes. This is very much the way the universes form, though this frequency can't be heard as it is so much higher than our perception. By this "word" aka the note, the ether vibrated at different rates to produce the different states of matter/elements, and the dust of the universe formed into various forms and shapes of galaxies, and when this "frequency" or rather frequencies ends, the matter of the universe will no longer vibrate in the way that various forms of matter descend in vibration from the ether, and again the universe will be without form. This manifestation of God that we call existence is like a "Gods song" with such complexity that it forms the almost countless forms of matter and states.
You make a number of ungrounded assumptions on what can or cannot be proven. so you are positive that atoms are acting the way they are suppose to just because we are here? Just because they are attracted to each other in our universe does not mean thats how they are suppose work. Also, i never said it was a man of some kind, i also believe with you that "god" is everything, but to say the universe has intelligence...i don't know if i can agree with that. WE are the intelligence/consciousness of the universe. Aha the old "earth vs Earth line."Personally i believe you are mistaking heaven and earth for the universe and matter (atoms). heaven could the eternity and earth can mean our physical world. You forgot some of your verse, ill add it for you: "Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters." A few verses later: "And God said: 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." Water in Hebrew language is an indefinable expanse without borders, a condition in which people could drown and die. EDIT: Also, Science does not even ask the ultimate questions, contrary to what you imagine science to be. What ultimate metaphysical cause for chemical reactions will you find in a chemistry book? None. Any true scientist would think you fell off your horse if you were to look for ultimate physical causes in a chemistry or physics text. The best you can do to explain to me the beginning of the space of the universe is to quote Singularity; that the universe came from a single timespace event of infinite mass and zero volume Science does not have intelligence, it just simply is. Think of it this way. You are taking an exam and you study your ass off, you yourself have acquired all the intelligence to answer the questions to your full knowledge. Science is like a cheat sheet or the answer key. It is not intelligent, they are just the answers. EDIT: If science deals with intelligent power over nature then it should be able to observe and measure that intelligence. Obviously, it is an impossibility to submit infinite intelligence and power to the scientific method. We don't understand anything about it. Once again there is no "proof" of the highest intelligence, it just is. Okay, so another Human characteristic. Words are from us, not God. Wouldn't they form due to the vibrations of the notes? How did our universe form from "notes?" Sound vibrations or your "notes" do not travel through empty space, if anything they are small amounts of heat, if anything. Once again, how does "frequency or frequencies" travel through space and ether?
trig you continue to inspire me as you hold much more comprehension on the subject of 'god' as a whole than most of any one on these forums. i can only wish to come to a full complete and utterly undeniable understanding of everything that encompasses this universe. i was just trying to iterate to fatblunts in another thread of the cosmic frequency that resounds through the world as we know it, that god is not some dude but the vibration thats holds everything in place, that like us and every cell and atom have to have some sort of intelligence, or reasoning and that the universe as a whole obviously has something of the same if we follow this structure you assume too much in the limits of mankind. there is no limit to possession of knowledge, there is only more to learn. instead of coming to a conclusion we should try to understand each other and how we see things. instead of just telling trig its impossible he knows this much, why dont you ask him questions about what he just posted? questioning him on his beliefs will only clarify what he wrote thus bringing you to an understanding allowing for growth in wisdom
You know when people argue the existence of god and they come to this conclusion it always baffles me to what point they find that god even needs to exist. What I mean by that is if science can accurately predict all of 'god's phenomena' then what's the purpose of believing in that god? And if god is beyond our comprehension, hopefully you're not a creationist, because what would be the purpose of our creation if we cannot comprehend him? That sounds pretty absurd to me. You're completely welcome to allude physical laws to god, but that doesn't make him any more evident, prominent, or useful.
I AM EDITING MY POST #50 SO CHECK UP THERE WHEN I AM DONE you failed to do so, so please continue explaining. i would love to learn something new. Because he may have his view points but i disagree with him strongly, and the fact is he does make bold statements... but i guess we all do when it comes to this subject Must share some rep i would +1 you if i could buddy
Our universe just is. Just like how many religious people say "god" just is. The universe abides by laws like Trig said, but these laws are not "physics" or anything other "science" name you want to try and pretend to call it. Nature just is. Humans (only doing us because we dont know of intelligent other than us) find these "laws." If we didn't have the universe here we wouldn't have equations in physics and math could be easily flawed. Like i have just posted, our universe is not intelligent, conscious, living, whatever you guys say it is. It IS the answers. The universe provides us with everything we need, and we are continually searching for more answers the universe provides. We are your "gods" (or UNIverse's) intelligence.
Again, you guys are not grasping the concept of what God truly is. You are thinking of God as some person. It is rather useless for me to further explain myself, in time you will understand it, perhaps not this life or the next, but you will indeed understand it as your spirits unfold. And to the poster who says I have no humility and "there is no possible way a human can know this", you don't seem to understand how human learning works. It doesn't lie purely in scientific experiment which is only 1 manifestation, known as "the son" in the bible. The way we are able to grasp knew knowledge is by unfolding. As we unfold more into the intellectual mind we grasp more "science" but there are still even higher planes of human existence that may be grasped by the unfolding of the soul to reveal the Light of the Spirit within, which is a drop of the substance of God, a substance which is omniscient and that all things can be discovered within. We do not create new knowledge, we only evolve to be able to understand it. I am indeed humble, and this knowledge is rather mundane in terms of the higher knowledge, which is why I share it with you guys because I know some of you will indeed be able to grasp it. edit: I never said that science has intelligence. Science explains that Law which works according to intelligence. If we have intelligence and consciousness, do you think that is because our brain creates it? Or is it much more logical to think that intelligence/consciousness exists within the universe and that we have a semi-concentrated form of it within us.
Well if you be rid the idea of personal god, then I don't care - I'm happy. The god that 'answers everyones prayers', 'commits miracles', etc, etc, that one doesn't exist. Like I said, if you want to allude the universe to god, you're completely welcome to. It lands right back to square one, knowing exactly what we already know (the physical laws of the universe) and allows us to predict nothing more. My whole point is that considering a god is pointless in it's entirety. Whether we discover a god exists or not, would not change anything we can do. It would only add to the egotistical certainty of man that his life actually has some purpose other than living.
Like i said, i understand the connection you are talking about and the "frequencies". please stop fucking saying i think its a man of some kind. i dont even believe in god. Those higher planes are nothing more than training your mind to get rid of imagination. Imagination and believing in it is a huge reason we even have consciousness. The universe is not conscious of itself, the only reason we know of the universe is through "us." The only reason the universe knows of its atoms and attraction between them is through us. Bro, now you are missing my point. You can talk about the forces between atoms in everything, and the connection between those atoms. It still comes down to chance and probability. The c&p that these atoms connect with one another is how everything came and comes to be. What were the chances that hydrogen landed with oxygen to make water? think deeper than a chemistry periodic table and electronegativity. what were the chances in the beginning that hydrogen and oxygen would be products of the big bang? (my guess is infinity, which is why infinity does exist throughout the universe)