oh, how i could ramble on about astral projection for hours. its beautiful... and i stll have yet to produce a fully consious OBE. i need some alone time to practice i think the astral planes are where you go when you die. if yall would like i will go find some very informative links that will explain AP to you in better ways then i can. GO AP!
Why are people convinced astral projections are anything other than ordinary narcotic trips? I have a hard time believing there can be outer body experiences. Think about it: your mind and consciousness exist because of your brain and, unless you believe in ghosts or spirits, consciousness can't exist beyond your body's sensory network. To me, astral projections just sound like lucid dreams with an intense sense of self-consciousness--but who knows?
I wish I could discuss, but im not very educated on this topic, Ill have to go check out a few books or something, because it actually really interests me. I do have a basic understanding and in an attempt to jumpstart this thread... I (like many others) believe some people wont ever be able to astrally project themselves because their afraid to leave their physical body...but why? fear of the unknown? Some people who astral project themselves claim to see an umbilical cord, while others dont. Do you think the ones who have an umbilical cord have less vivid experiences than the ones who dont, because of the cord representing a lifeline?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_Projection This is interesting. It sounds like there are two very different ideas of the OBE. One as a spiritual experience and another as a meditative one.
i say, not you. does our mind and consciousness really exist because of our brain? rrrrrrrreally? i dont know, why are they? experience maybe? why are you convinced mind and consciousness exist because of your brain? if it is just "in the mind", then the chord represents a psychological safety net. or rather, it is a metacreation via the quantum psychology to keep ya safe. either way, no fear, you can get back anytime you want. and eeeeeven if you pass through a transitory state where you cant (dunno why that would or could)... just ask... you'll be guided back no probs. speaking of psychology, i think this is something you should only try when you have cleared out all psychological toxins. there are some variations and permiatations of certain religions (of the organised fearmongering variety) that would have you be limited by powerfull psychological mind traps. dissolve these and go explore the universe. disclamer, i have not yet done this without the aid of other states induced by powerfull psychoactive substances, so bear that in mind when reading what i have to say. looking forward to more info dissemination in this thread.
For a number of reasons. Obviously there are lot of connections between the mind and the brain. When people suffer serious head trauma their whole realities often suffer. People with growing brain tumors often experience strange smells and colors, probably because of the physical pressure on their brain. Lobotomies, little snips in (more often than scoops out of--most facilities retired that method) the brain's connections can make an insane person happy and mindless. Just like senses come from our body our mind comes from our brain. Think about it again: if you are outside your body why do you see as though you have eyes and experience your other natural senses likewise? Wouldn't the experience be entirely different if it was really just your "pure consciousness" floating around? And if the mind can exist outside of the brain what is the brain even for?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060923104835.htm What effect does observation have on the thing being observed? Can thought influence matter? In the world of quantum mechanics, yes. Take a look at the above link, interesting story. MelT
heres something i thought of when i was considering the legitimacy of astral projection and OBEs.... people can "see" when they are in this escaped form of consciousness, yes? well how can this be possible? "sight" is simply the brain's interpretation of the photons which hit the eye's retina. if there is no physical "eye" when you are experiencing an OBE, then how could light detection and interpretation be possible? someone answer this question, because right now i am convinced that it disproves the reality of OBEs......OBEs must simply be altered states of consciousness within the brain....and yes i have done lots of research on this topic, and no one has ever considered the question that i pose. i have read lots of anecdotal evidence of people being in a hospital bed and seeing an event that was confirmed to have happened some place else, while they are experiencing an OBE. sounds promising, but since there is no science to back this, it really means nothing.... aaaaanyways....someone answer my question!
I agree, it is completely counter-intuitive...unless the idea that's common to most eastern traditions, that we are 'within' (manifestations of) a single universal consciousness, is true. That doesn't need eyes, ears or even a brain to perceive. As it is everything, it knows itself and everything happening within it. As I said in the post above, that this truly might be the case is being hinted at by modern physics. Consciousness and matter aren't the two separate things they would seem. Read the link if you get a chance, it's straight forward science and not fringe at all. Of course it doesn't count as proof of anythng, but it's interesting nonetheless. MelT
what we "see", it has been estimated, (though i recall a newscientist article which claimed proof), that what we see, 60% of is made up by the brain. the eye is not involved. also, blind people often see with their imagination or mind's eye or something too. if your thinking is too rigid, narrowly defined, and dogmatic, then perhaps astral projection is not for you.... yet. hmmm... http://forum.grasscity.com/search.php?searchid=895542 <-- adding this link to the first post. should reduce alot of repeated lines of discussion.
i dont think you understand what you read in that article. yes, a large percentage of what we "See" is made up by the brain. as i stated, sight is the BRAIN'S INTERPRETATION of the light that reaches your retina. there are 2 types of cells in the retina that are used in different lighting scenarios ("cones" and "rods"). there are processes of the subconscious brain that shape the interpretation of the light that is detected by the eye, and the result is the image that we "see". the eye is obviously hugely involved, as without an eye, no detection of light would be possible AT ALL. or perhaps astral projection is just bullshit.
Astral projection eh? It's possible I guess. You can always try . I'm pretty comfortable in my body, anyways. How would u come back?
Well to answer your eye question, this of course leads us into the world of metaphysics and spirituality, but, chew on this. If in an astral projection you are seperating your conscious mind from your body and going around exploring, why would you even need an eye to percieve? You've just tapped into a higher level of consciousness in my opinion. I also subscribe to the belief that there is a universal "way things work" and I do not believe that our eyes are the only way to percieve color. Perhaps we see color when projecting ourselves because that is the kind of perception we are used to.
point taken. but since its not something ive experienced, i cant say. from the anecdotal evidence ive read about OBEs, they always seem to be able to see...and usually with much more detail that normal... "color" is just the subconscious brain's way of interpreting light....so that the conscious mind can distinguish between different wavelengths of light....different wavelengths represent the different colors that we "See", or rather, different "colors" represent the different wavelengths of light that enter your eye. and this of course only pertains to the visible spectrum....wavelengths outside of which we cannot see. these are the facts.
not to anyone who can see when theyre awake...i dunno how people who were born blind dream...but this is another reason why its possible that OBEs and or astral projection are probably just mental experiences within the brain....
or perhaps you didn't understand that i was simply relaying what i remembered in brief from the article to provide a little extra to assist others to see how it may be possible. meh. {edit - actually, wait, this has all made it sound like our brains arent making up the rest of the image for us. it is! it's how glaucoma and other disfunctions of the eye where patches of the retina cease to function go undiagnosed for so long.} sertainly without an eye, the eye can detect no light, however, the skin is ever so slightly photactive. it's how we produce vitamin d for one. how much of this filters through to the brain i'd guess is largely irelevant for the interpretation of shape, form, colour, though at best perhaps only marginally for shade/tone. there are many reports of blind people being able to sence light, and not just from the warmth some light sources provide. however, this is slightly getting astray from the topic. blind people seeing. blind people dreaming. heck... why don't i just post another link, it seems to cause less discussions based on destroying the other person's points. third video down. listen for the bits about dmt and telepathy. and no, in no way am i saying anything is conclusive, i'm just here to shoe horn some people's minds open to new ideas, and to provide catalysts for thinking. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...n=9140FDF6-0A2B-4664-807A6DA659D217EB22873479 ps- ^check out the 5th down too.^ not that there's much related, i just like it. pps- thnx for the discussing everyone, though i was hoping for more input about the powers of our minds/brains rather than petty deconstruction, disbelief from non-experience(rs), and general berating.