the geometrical basis of the universe

Discussion in 'Science and Nature' started by twilightXtoker, Aug 11, 2007.

  1. okay so ive been thinking about know how everyone says the universe is infinite and that it never ends?? and you kno how all the celestial bodies are shaped like spheres [stars, planets, white dwards, novas, etc etc]

    well then why shouldnt the universe itself be spherical?? it would still be never ending but it would have a limited amount of space...[what i mean is that if the universe was a sphere it would have no end...if it were a sphere a line going around it could go on forever because it has no boundaries...of course the sphere would have a fixed size]

    but if the universe really was shaped as a sphere it would also need a center [where everything would be pulled together by some gigantic cosmic force {maybe god or maybe the entrance to other dimensions]

    a sphere is a 3 dimensional object only based on a 2 dimensional object [the circle]...which could actually turn out to be the base of everything

    i was also thinking about's also never ending so why cant it go in a circle too?? im not saying that time repeats just saying eventually at a point on the circle a disaster happens that kills off everything so that the universe can start a new [and then a new series of events occurs and a new circle forms]

    but eventually all the different forms of circles are made and every possibility has occured in time...eventually that event will have to occur again

    say if a war occured over a hamburger [just for a stupid possibility]...then the universe ends and restarts...a few other billion restarts of the universe later and THAT SAME WAR occurs...[eventually it has to reoccur on the off chance that it will EVENTUALLY occur]

    ...because time is infinite and never ending [and so by chance the event must REOCCUR once][no matter how long that event takes to reoccur][giving truth to the saying "HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF"]

    and then on top of that i was thinking about us and our lives and our spirits...i was thinking about how we die...i always thought ppl go to heaven or hell when they die...but then i thought wouldnt both places get over crowded eventually??? and since time is infinite wouldnt it get boring only living ONCE [so i thought maybe we do get reincarnated maybe once every 10 billion years or maybe 10 years or so [idk]]

    but each time we're reincarnated we're made into a new person so it's not like the creator of us is only allowing a certain number of spirits to come alive...if we were reincarnated as the same person over and over then that would mean our creator was only allowing a certain number of spirits to live...but i think each spirit is just a vessel for a new being to form

    in a thread b4 this i had talked about perfection...consider these two concepts:
    perfection and infinity

    ^^^we know these two concepts exist in nature [but as just humans we do not experience each ourselves][but some immortal supreme being IS infinite and perfect][this being is God or some other Supreme Being/Creator]

    and i think it is our goal in our spiritual lives to become just like this supreme being...we must strive for perfection [as it is a goal that we cannot reach, it also becomes a goal that we must continually strive for][i think striving for perfection is the goal of our spiritual lives][and when it is fulfilled our spirits can rest in peace][then again...this would contridict my theory that our spirits are never ending]

    so basically this is all my thoughts on eveyrthing in general [i kno some parts or thoughts from other religions but why is only one certain religion the RIGHT religion][why cant some religions have bits and pieces correct??]

    but if you really think about it all my theories arent just guesses...they actually have some basis to them...

    okay im done but whoever read all this i gotta congratulate you for having the attention span to [cuz i kno i dont have it][i just needed to rant about all of this][it was driving me all crazy thinking about it and opinions would be appreciated][i may edit this as my life changes or theories change]
  2. what up man, nice post. i also think about shit like that.

    one thing you said, doesn't make any sense to me.

    you contradict yourself by saying that. becuase if the universe was never ending. (which i believe it is) then it would be impossible to have a limited amount of space. and just the opposite, if the universe had a limited amount of space, then it's not infinite.

    who knows weather the universe goes on forever or not, but if it doesn't i would also think it was a sphere.

    but i think the universe is infinite so it wouldn't even have a size limit or shape

    it would be the shit if you were reincarnated to another universe, but you still rememberd everything from before you died. so even if you started out small again, (like a baby or little kid) you would feel (mentaly) like you were what ever age you died at. but physically you would feel and would be young again.

  3. My whole problem with the whole space is curved concept to where you end up back where you started if you keep going in a straight line ad nauseam was that if the universe is spherical (unlike your thought of needing a center) I always pondered the fact that there has to be something outside. I mean... Outside of this sphere, what is there? non-existence? I think not, but that's what many would have us believe...

  4. i believe that outside our little sphere there may actually be other one can say for sure but thats why im trying to base my ideas on concepts already confirmed...what if our universe and existence was just one sphere of many???

  5. See, this still doesn't answer my question though... if there are more spheres, what is outside of those spheres then.
  6. i dont think non-existance...maybe a sort of when you put a marble in a glass of water and the water fills the space around the marble...this filling maybe its something like another sort of parallel universe...the opposite to the universes other then ours and the other spheres
  7. hahaha the plum pudding model
    j/k this is an actual theory, we very briefly mentioned it in modern physics
    Basically it states that a multiverse existed and our universe as well as others were created in a false vacuum state (a temporarily stable low-energy state that is not the true ground state - if you have any knowledge of calc, its like a local minima that is not the absolute minima)
    and the "pudding" part is actually dark energy

    if the universe is infinite, its shape and volume are indeterminate. However rationalizing it as a sphere makes sense since we started at a singularity and expanded in all directions from that point. However you could make any simply connected shape in this manner

    and not all bodies are spheres, but ya alot are. think of blowing a soap bubble they always try to form perfect spheres because this creates the smallest surface area for its volume

  8. Ok, this is the answer i like best because it hits the topic that the answer of a round universe is just a way of trying to make it easier to comprehend... it's not a reality. My question still stands, heh, of course i'm sure it's the question pondered daily by many in the scientific community.

  9. yo dude thanx that just simplified a lot of wut i was tryin to say into somethin understable :)

    but yea anyone else wanna contribute some ideas that mite possibly make me rethink my theories???

    [as i sed b4 i think ill edit this thread from time to time as my theories change]
  10. Just a point though, the Universe isn't infinite. It's constantly expanding, but it does have limits. We know that it has to be in one of 3 shapes, but none are circular. It seems obvious to imagine that since we started as a singularity that we must expand equally in all directions, but due to various forces we didn't.

  11. i think it is our goal in our spiritual lives to become just like this supreme being...we must strive for perfection [as it is a goal that we cannot reach, it also becomes a goal that we must continually strive for][i think striving for perfection is the goal of our spiritual lives][and when it is fulfilled our spirits can rest in peace][then again...this would contridict my theory that our spirits are never ending]

    This actually supports your theory that spirits are never ending, if they can only end once they have reached perfection, but it is impossible to do so, then they are exactly that, infinite.

  12. you know how much force would be exerted if two of those spheres collided? it would make an awful big bang :D
  13. And that is the source to the energy of the big bang!:smoking:

    The Multiverse, The Multiverse is the only way in which we can rid ourselves of a need for a Creator. Clusters of spherical universes burstling and bubling on fixed gravitational and antigraviational fields, floating adrift in the outerverse, part of a whole larger universe.

    We used to believe that stars were fixed, and were ancient and eternal - but now we know that stars are created in a cradle of gas, a nebulae - could this be also the stuff of the universe? or could our universe be a resulf of colliding neihgbourhood universes in the multiverse?
  14. Everything is like infinate atoms inside of atoms, infinitely bigger and smaller.:smoking:

  15. are you adam monk in disguise?

    yup. all religions. u gotta use em all to see the whole truth. it fine tunes the map. shaves off the rough, the unnecessary, the fluff.

    when discussing time in as a polydimensional construct, just as we have multiple dimensions for the space part of "spacetime", my friend and i, coming from our own unique paths and perspectives could see and agree, time is not linear, there are what look like circles from certain vantage point of consciousness, and what can also look like spheres, and further yet, spirals, and yet further still, caluza-klein (sp?) shapes, much the same repeated on larger scales (and smaller) like a fractal.
    many a spiral, when looked end on, look like a circle. many a kaluza klein, a sphere.
    those who know about the seed, egg, flower and fabric of life symbology will be able to accept this quite easily, just as those who have never heard about this but are prepared to be open to this possibility and conceptualise it for themselves.
    this is also quite closely related to the most consistently occuring experience i have while taking triptamine halucinogens... what i have once feebily described as "scissors and squares", and stolen a term i heard from terrence mckenna which i felt described the phenomena very well (whether intended to mean the same or not, i'm still uncertain), the "self transforming machine elves" (elves in the sence of being eternal), the ever changing, dancing intricate geometric patterns of infinite complexity and fidelity, in an indefinably flexible way. like a soup of constant activity occurring throughout everything. almost as if this has something to do with the explanation of the appearance of "jitteryness" of the quantum field.

    the "entrance to other dimensions" can exist in the very near and the very small, rather than be some great massive thing located at the center of some massive sphere in which contains all our spacetime continuum. like the hinges to other realms of being are all around us.
    and what makes you assume that such giant cosmic forces would be pulling things together? could they not just as easily be pushing things appart? or even maintaining the status quo? (hehe, just noticed a rather hindu motif hidden in there)
    as if we are the ant crawling on a telegraph wire... we might just be able to perceive that one of the two dimensions of this surface is curved, we might even discover its so curved it comes back on itself. would we be able to perceive the sag in it as it hangs from pole to pole though?
    the bigger curves.

    time can be "finite" AND never-ending. like if you're already thinking of spheres. its a finite shape, but if you were to walk around on it, you'd never find an edge, and so, it would have a never ending quality.
    translate that to a mobius strip or one of those kaluza klein shapes that i cant spell the name off, and you start to get to where time is a very interesting concept, a ride of the higher dimensions.

    a line?

    sure, draw a line on it, it will help it be mapped and charted.

    a straight line?

    well, that's nearly sure to have two termini. unless of course, what you are drawing your line on isnt really flat, and allows you to keep going in a straight line in the dimensions you can percieve, but on either larger scales or on dimensions you cant percieve (like a flatlander reaching for the third dimension, or a "3D"er reaching for the fourth spacial dimension where tesseracts can be plainly perceived), your line could meet up with itself again, confirming it couldnt really be a "straight" line.

    and what if your line crisscrosses itself a seemingly infinate number of times throughout?

    what then would that mean for "dimensions" and consciousness?

    string theory attempts to depict and describe the entirety as strings, fluctuating waves and curves. everything. i put forth for speculation... what if there's only one string.

    only one string.


    the string we observe as being a brane that contains our entire space-time continuum (& thensome), is the same string we observe as being say, a ripple in a light wave, or an electron, or someone's thought pattern emition for the emotion they felt when they heard they were going to be a parent, or, or... and so on. all the same string, if only we could follow it for long enough to see it transition from all the states of being this one string would be. indeed, i'd have to start talking about this in a very different way if i were to consider this the ultimate truth, i'd have to start talking about this one string as "I".

    ps, hey twighlighttoker (cool & appropriate name btw),
    i really admire the stuff you contemplate. though (now please take this the right way), i see alot of prison-religion comicbook "pop" literality in the interpretation to some of the stuff you talk about, obviously, particularly when referencing the creator god and such. once you clear some of this gunk up for yourself with a few clean and clear urika & revelation moments, i'll be on the edge of my seat for every word you write then.
    to all of you who think too highly of me just cos i rabbit on about this stuff... watch this guy. :D twighlight toker. one to watch. :D oops... dont watch too closely though, you'll spoil the result by measuring it. ;)

  16. We don't know if it is or isn't yet, when we approach the speed of light or go past it somehow the expansion may become realitive to our approach to the edge. This would mean it appears to have boundaries but it may not because of the expansion being realitive to our speed. The only way it wouldn't be infinite is if the expansion was constant and we could go outside the boundaries, going faster than the speed of light somehow.

    However, if there was space and time outside of this universe, it would be a parallel universe and would betray itself as infinite anyways. A loop.

    If there is no space and time, would we cease to exist? Or would just space and time not exist? I would like to think just space and time wouldn't exist. However people might disagree and say that's all we really are.

    The boundaries as well as expansion are just a clever illusion I believe. Mostly because it's expanding at the speed of light, which is the only speed we cannot approach containing any mass. Sounds to me like we can't reach the edge, which to me believing in God as all-powerful means we don't want to.

    If we don't want boundaries then it's infinite. However, all-power can form them, it's all about will in my eyes. If we want boundaries we have them if we don't, we don't.

    I am very interested in finding out if the expansion is constant or not. Or if we can somehow exceed the speed of light containing mass. It would take an energy source beyond our current understanding to move a human being let alone a craft at beyond the speed of light.

    Somehow, I still think it can be done. But the universe not being infinite is still up in there air for sure, if we can't go faster than the speed of light we can't even test if it is infinite or not.

    We don't know if the expansion stops and then collapses or if the expansion is nothing more than an illusion yet. We will find out one day though I believe. :D
  17. :smoke::confused:i am still gathering knowledge on a diagram for "everything"

    the only idea i have.

    all the collective "dimensions", "times" and "spaces" is embedded in a model.

    infinate amounts of flat planes all equally in the directions of the XYZ+ axis's.

    im still very amateur on the subject of quantom physics, and things of the nature. part of my directive is basically science and metaphysical.

    i have very recently departed from a christian lifestyle and i feel right living by the herb.
    its g0d for you.

    ps.2 3gram blunts of mazarr.....
  18. maybe thats how our universe was created...maybe there was a universe before ours which crashed with another...which created the big bang that created OUR universe

    but then how did those universes start...

  19. take magic mushrooms. /and/or take MDMA.

    in quantity.

    there you will be able to go to the place with no space, and no time.

    able to ____ with all that comes with ______ in such a placelessness.

    ...but to retain it when the mushrooms ware off.... ah, t'would be another miracle entirely.
  20. The universe is flat. duh.

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