Is true unity among Democrats possible? No. But collaboration is. The topic title was taken from an article and like most threads will likely morph broad distances from the article or fizzle after 3 or 4 comments. So many terms going around as well as conflicting definitions for each these days is the reason i read "this" author's take. Here he is quoting from a book written by a Timothy Snyder titled ON TYRANNY which he doesn't necessarily agree with but does describe how some liberals and likely all leftists view what is NOT patriotic. There is no room for doubt as to who's view he is using as an example yet no name is mentioned in the book apparently. "What is patriotism? Let us begin with what patriotism is not. It is not patriotic to dodge the draft and to mock war heroes and their families… It is not patriotic to compare one’s search for sexual partners in New York with the military service in Vietnam that one has dodged. It is not patriotic to avoid paying taxes…. It is not patriotic to admire foreign dictators… It is not patriotic to cite Russian propaganda at rallies. It is not patriotic to share an adviser with Russian oligarchs. It is not patriotic to solicit foreign policy advice from someone who owns shares in a Russian energy company… Patriotism involves serving your own country. A patriot wants the nation to live up to its ideals…A patriot has universal values." Again, the above quote was taken from the book the author of the link below is quoting, not from him, written by him, nor necessarily his view or opinion. However some here will agree while others will call BS. lol Much much more at the link by the actual author of the article who dissagrees with Snyder who he quotes in italic................. The Difference Between Liberalism and Leftism | Current Affairs
I call bullshit on the part about the draft and taxes. The draft is both unconstitutional and antithetical to the whole notion of "freedom and liberty." Taxes, while someone is bound to diaagree with me, should be very limited. Taxation without representation has been a huge issue since before this country was founded and remains an issue today. Patriotism is calling out the government when it is in the wrong, no matter which party is in the majority. Patriotism is not unwavering support for the military and the people it is made up of. True patriotism is healthy distrust of government rather than blind allegiance and obedience. Patriots are rebellious against corrupt government; not government in general. Of course I'm sure many people will disagree with me on that, especially my anarchist friends like JWS.
Exactly, you nailed it and this Snyder guy who is quoted in Italic is saying that imo... as many who voted for (or support) the current so called POTUS & his so called administration are blind to the facts you mentioned. All they see is do your duty as another "drone" without questioning the govt. as long as the guy/party currently sitting they rally behind the "flag" as if it's the 18th century & the false flag of 2001 didn't start waving. Taking a knee imo is being patriotic to those who drafted the Declaration of Independence, constitution and amendments. Yet they think the N. Koreans who don't have the freedom to take a knee (or they take a bullet, gas or whatever) are being patriotic due to their unwavering blind allegiance to a crazed dictator.
Surely tax evasion is the Mana/Ambrosia/Nectar of the elite? How can a leyman pay more annual taxation pro rata than a conglomurate? Cannot compute the logic here. And, No. It is not even Christian.
Taxation in this country has become a complete joke. The federal government is a worthless pile of shit. Taxes go up and government incompetence follows. I would love to see the entire country say fuck taxes one year and watch all the parasites in DC panic.
Fair question but... Twice i mentioned that the author of the article who i assume came up with the title was quoting from the author of a book that was mentioned including title. i'm not endorsing the title, the article or the author of the article nor the book he quotes from which i have not read and likely won't (not to say it isn't a worthwhile read for some)... having said that, there seems to be a huge gap between what liberals call patriotism vs the right. lol Just presenting it as food for thought for both (rather all) sides as there are a lot of terms (labels) being tossed around here.
First off, liberalism has many different meanings. It really depends on context. In it's original form, it's referred to as classic liberalism. When you think of classic liberalism, think of the American constitution. Capitalism combined with civil rights, private property rights, etc. It's a center-right ideology. In the modern world, liberalism is short for social-liberalism which is a hybrid between socialism and liberalism. The ideology essentially states that capitalism without big gov't and regulation has too many externalities/external effects. Big gov't must "balance" capitalism to prevent social injustice, monopolies, wage gaps, etc. Leftism in essence supports egalitarianism. In other words, equality. Rightism supports hierarchy; that humans naturally seek superiority and status. Liberalism technically combines elements from both leftism and rightism. However, in the modern world, liberalism is almost always associated with leftist ideals.
@Bluetuna hit the nail on the head there. We have classic liberals and American liberals. We see the same with Libertarianism and American Libertarianism. Different fish. The Democrats need to move on from taking down Trump and start trying to get elected. Maybe Mueller will find something maybe he won't but the Democrats can't afford to wait. I think right now is the perfect time to launch or perhaps even relaunch one of the existing parties such as the Greens or Libertarian party. Now's the time to build when the other two are in disarray and at each others throats. If only Ron was 40 or Rand was his father's son. On the subject of patriotism, a patriot is someone who defends their country of birth. Someone who takes up arms be that in the regular army or as a militia/guerilla fighter. Traveling 000's of miles around the world to kill a man who will never set foot in the US is not patriotism. It's doing what the politicians tell you to do. I mean no disrespect to any veterans either, I respect any man who serves in his countries military.
That was some crazy shit. He was shot 4 times. Supposedly they had a job convincing him he was in SK when he woke up. He thought it was an elaborate NK plot to trick him.
Hey smoky, Interesting post you made there. Do you think the democratic party has gone to far on attacking people that didn't vote for them? I do. The Dems that control deep blue states and think they can take back there name calling are dreaming. I don't know how this will play out in the future and I hope we can get back to being more civil to each other. The MSM is crushing the democrats with their TDS problem and the leftists are going to suffer until they can flush that toilet . Have you seen the looks on their faces and the hate and name calling from most of the news people? Some one should send the media a memo and tell them that until they quit attacking the President and half of the country for supporting him things will continue to get worse for the left come next November. Less than a year from now we will be voting again and as of right now I see them getting another boot in the ass. And Rand Paul has been shot at playing baseball and beaten while cutting his grass. For some reason not much of that has been on the news for how dangerous this can become. If the MSM and the Leftists don't recognize that they are causing this kind of hate to act out in violence towards politicians it will go to the next level before it gets better. God help us all. A word from Bannon. Bannon, with the whiteboard in his office and his eagerness to check off Trump campaign promises as accomplished, took the brunt of the blame for the administration moving too quickly. But he says the uproar had its upside: It helped create “the resistance” that Bannon believes thoroughly delegitimizes the Democratic Party with average voters it needs to win elections. He claimed he knew the outrage was coming, and that the Left had fallen into a trap. “The Left bit on it, and created the resistance, and it blew up, and now it’s part of the political movement,” Bannon said. “It’s what’s broken the Democratic Party.”
Not much! Both shit cut from the same cloth. National Libertarianism in twined with direct democracy is my dream world. Sent from my Redmi 3 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
I completely agree with you on how democrats need to move on from attacking Trump and anything Trump-related. It's fucking retarded. I disagree with you on patriotism though. For the most part I do agree, I just disagree with the notion that someone has to be born in the country they feel patriotic about. I know many people who came to America, either by their parents immigrating or immigrating themselves. While a few of them still have pride in their ethnic identity (nothing wrong with that) they still love America more than their original country of origin. The people I'm talking about consider themselves American and they should. I agree that joining the military is generally an honorable thing to do, but traveling across the world isn't (though there are cases where I believe it is (take the Americans in the military who have gone to Syria to help the Kurds as well as Americans (and people of other nationalities) who have volunteered to fight in the YPG/SDF)). That's honorable. What isn't honorable is wanting to go to war for the sake of going to war. That's nothing more than a dick waving contest. War isn't cool, but it is a necessity sometimes. The problem with war in America is often times it's used as a sort of rite of passage for manhood. And lastly the LP; I completely agree that the LP needs to use this time to build their base back up. Gary Johnson damn near made me lose faith in the party entirely. He really fucked up. Aside from the LP, people need to come together and form new parties to compete in the stagnant political environment we have in America right now. Americans have political fatigue because year after year we get the same shit dressed up as "new and improved." We've become so sick of everything that we have now resorted to arguing, fighting, and rioting. We don't want the truth anymore, we just want the side we align ourselves with to be right. And that's a huge problem right now.
I don't think the Democrats are acting any differently than the Republicans would be had they lost. Both parties supporters already despised each other long before Trump came along. We saw the madness of Republican supporters throughout the Obama years with the Muslim/African carry on. The MSM are being the MSM imo, they feed their viewer's needs and if there wasn't an appetite for 24/7 Trump they wouldn't be showing it. The Democrats are offering nothing at the moment apart from pointing at Trump. They need a showman or woman that will bring a bit of razzmatazz. Hillary had no razzmatazz, it hurt her to smile. You could see she was feeling awkward and uneasy throughout the debate and hadn't the guts or gumption to land a knock out punch to Trump. They need a star in the mould of Reagan badly. Someone who could charm the knickers off a nun. I have Rand on ignore, he pisses me off everytime he opens his mouth. His daddy is one of the greatest Americans since WW2 and Rand's like a boy who grew up in a different house. He was in the presence of genius but by the looks of things he must have spent his time playing pacman. There was no appetite for Rand's beating on the telly and that's why we saw very little coverage. Next election cycle will be interesting for sure.
Yes, you're right you don't have to be born in a country to be a patriot. There are I'm sure many examples of people sacrificing their lives for their adopted countries. A lot of Irish fought in the US civil war, some went straight from the boat to the battlefield. They won acceptance through sacrifice. You'll enjoy this I'm sure but I've been researching my family name and a lot of that name went to the US during the civil war. Ironically the majority fought for the South. A strong LP could make serious ground at the moment. The genuine non warmongering Libertarian types on the right are crying out for a young Ron Paul to unite behind. Look at the ground Ron made up against the rock star Obama. The LP could be climbing the charts if they got themselves a good front man/woman.