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Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by *guest, Dec 25, 2011.

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  1. Hmm, I see where you are coming from but must bring D&D into it. Ever play it? Ever know a rules lawyer? The rules of any D&D system is very similar to the Bible. In D&D I can find a rule to make my character more powerful than a DM thinks he should be, in the Bible, I can find a rule that allows me to rape and murder innocents in the name of a "holy" God. I would say most D&D editions are well crafted, even though I can find holes and loop holes in all of them. In the same way I think the Bible is well crafted, not because it is put together flawlessly, but, because, it is put together flawed while presenting the idea of flawlessness. People will, as always, fill in the blanks, for good or ill.
     
  2. #62 *guest, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011

    I think the Bible could amount to nothing but "Kittens are the kings of the world" and some people would still choose to believe it.

    Okay, maybe not.

    But the "Word of God" offers a lot. It offers a 'being' who will always "love" you, who is constantly "watching over you", who will take your loved ones to "Heaven" when they die and give them eternal peace and happiness.

    What's not to love?

    That's why I absolutely cannot bring myself to argue about religion with an old person. They have so many loved ones who have died, so much at stake, so much happiness riding on this idea of their loved ones being in heaven... I'd feel like such an absolute asshole trying to take that away from them at that point in their lives.

    The only reason I even bother arguing about religion and beliefs is for the young people.

    Because that's how I became an atheist. I read debates between theists and atheists on an internet forum at fucking 12 years old and I thought "Man... these atheists make a lot of sense..."

    I'm not worried about changing people who are already cemented in their beliefs. I want to help people who aren't sure yet come to some sort of conclusion. Sure, I hope they side with me because if I didn't think I was right then I wouldn't believe the things I do.

    But...

    I forgot what I was getting at. I think I drank too much wine and smoked too much of the marijuanas.

    Oh, well shit, now I look like a bad example. God dammit. Kids, don't worry, I'm still right. Even right people drink too much wine sometimes. :smoking:

    There, I fixed it.
     
  3. Why, I never!

    ... :eek: Okay, yes I did cast a magic missile at the darkness on occasion.

    In a sense, I think you're making my point. :D A clumsy (law) book is one that can justify anything. You can powergame a RPG by careful calculation, but not nearly anything like using the OT to find out when raping that hot virgin forces her to marry you for life. It only gets you so far, like the ability to survive a fight against three orcs instead of two, but consider also that no one likes dying so the book is already crafted to protect your survival in a sense. Obviously no ruleset is perfect, but there's a world of difference between these two examples.

    We've now said essentially the same thing. It's messed up, but presented with an authority that allows people to justify misusing it. And I can't help but notice that even your example depends on human factors. If the bible actually had a DM, none of the abuse would fly.
     
  4. Hooray! We're saying the same thing. :)
     


  5. I think you could get away with that. :D

    Cats in ancient Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




    I try to restrict myself to arresting the spread of religion rather than arguing with people because we don't agree, likely in line with your reasoning. So it's basically if they don't say anything, I don't. I can certainly appreciate the amount of investment older people have in religion, but if they're preaching around me, I don't care who they are (with the exception of my immediate family, because who the fuck needs that kind of trouble). I never concern myself with changing beliefs, but rather trying to hijack the attempts of others to win converts. After all, the preachers aren't open to new ideas, it is only those they are preaching to who (at least in the preacher's estimation) are open. So if that's the case, it might help to illuminat the flaws in an idea while it is being implanted.
     



  6. Yeah, I'm not actively trying to convert anyone but if a theist comes along and says "I believe this because of this", I will never feel bad saying "And I believe this because of this". Never any harm in giving both sides of a story.


    My husband's grandfather is actually very, very religious. He used to be a preacher or pastor or some shit like that.

    He did the deed as far as officially marrying us, because he asked if he could and my husband didn't want to say no so I was totally fine with that. The man is like 80 years old, he's funny as hell, and I really do like him despite the conflict in our beliefs.

    But the best part was, while was "marrying" us, he was holding his Bible upside down the whole time. We even have pictures of the upside down Bible.

    It was just another awesome layer on the awesome cake that was our wedding. ;)
     
  7. I believe it's never a good idea to let religion or the lack thereof become something that can have a negative influence on one's life, and it's an excellent idea in my view to have gone with the flow on that. Obviously, it worked out well for you, and probably wouldn't have been nearly as good if you hadn't.

    It's the people who get all uppity about their belief or lack that ruin it for the rest of us. It takes some artfulness to handle it gracefully, whether that's a gentle retort or the biting of one's tongue. As cynical as I can be, I at least retain some optimism in the idea that most of us essentially want to get along and live the good life. Even though the world is full of selfish, maddening people, I do see a consensus about this most of the time. People who regularly bring up divisive topics (like religious dogma, the atheist equivalent or partisan politics) in otherwise entertaining discussions are regularly and rightly seen by most as buzzkills.

    I can't help but laugh when any random thing is suddenly the cause for someone to start raving about some partisan political thing. You're at the wrong meeting, brotha! :laughing:
     
  8. Hey! Let me be clear... No one said anything bad about cats, right? 'Cause if they did... *Shakes his knife/fist and set of brass-knuckles in a menacing manner.
     


  9. No one should ever say anything bad about cats.

    If there is a god, it is without a doubt, a cat.

    Definitely a fucking cat.
     
  10. All hail Bast! :D
     
  11. That would actually make sense of a couple of mysteries for me. :laughing:
     
  12. /me cuddles kitties 4 ever!
     
  13. i don't really like cats. They're pretty chill, but dogs are way better.

    Religious war, Commence!
     
  14. You'd be surprised. I was a Christian who was in part converted by being confronted about it.

    And cats fucking rule because you don't have to offer them attention. I'd like one when I get my own place. And they're smart. Perfect for an atheist.
     
  15. It's funny to me how I never post in this thread aside from when I've been drinking.

    When I'm sober, it's just like "meh, I don't even want to start a damn argument right now..."
    When I've been drinking?
    "Hell yeah, let's talk about my beliefs for once!" :p


    I would like to make it clear though, just in case, that I have NO problem with people who believe in god.

    People who have thought hard about the origins of the universe and have come to the conclusion that maybe it was a god, those people are fine by me despite the fact that I may disagree.

    But the people who believe everything the Bible has to say? The people who vote and try to change laws based on their specific religious beliefs?
    "I'm voting no on gay marriage because that's what the BIBLE says!"

    Fuck those people. I have no respect for people like that and I'm not afraid to admit it.

    To act like your specific belief system should influence the laws that everyone has to follow is fucking ridiculous to me.

    I don't have a problem with believers. I have a problem with Bible-thumping assholes who think their specific holy book should be law in a country where freedom of speech and freedom of religion should be not only tolerated, but welcomed and applauded.
     
  16. I'm just going to leave this here...

    *plink*

    That's the sound of me accidentally dropping that link out of my pocket as I stroll by.
     
  17. Atheist is a very vague word in meaning to me.
     
  18. earlier this year i was an atheist-agnostic-skeptic

    now im a true believer in many different forms of spiritually and im living better then ever. i just dont conform to religion, but i totally believe in God. divine intervention?
     
  19. Atheist here.
     
  20. this thrread is great :) will be spending alot of time here!!
     
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