That human was crazy

It's the schlimmbesserung-effect of the unique ability humans posses to manipulate their environment.

I don't think it really devalues our species in an capacity.

Most humans, in the history of civilization have used this ability to create, to build, to better lives.

Some humans use it to destroy and to break things down.


Look at it this way: Cho Seung Hui failed to pass on his genetic information. His contribution to our species ended at Virgina Tech.

 

So you're saying that his suicide was a good thing? I would rather watch him rot in jail for what he did.

 

I don't think it matters.

 

i would like to see all the parents of whomever had gotten shot and killed, and let them do any single thing they want to him. besides kill him of course, that comes at the end. like torture him. jesus people like that guy reeeeaally piss me off.

 

How would that make them any better than him?

You forget that this crime was perpetrated by a person who held no human compassion or empathy. It would be even worse if we, as a society even had the attitude to reflect it.

 

It seems to me that the man was disturbed to begin with.most humans are driven by pain and shame and with (free will) we can do so stupid things some cannot take it and do really bad things couple that with mental disease its a bad thing.Is this our problem? mabey, mabey not but think of every bad thing you have done to the people you have met,do you think that may have affected them in a negitive way.(normal people) may not care but people with the ability to feel to deeply and or irationaly may.........thats my caring side.......WHAT THE F*** WAS HE DOING! NOTHING IS THAT BAD> but logic cant explain what happened.food for thought do we have free will or does our life experiences dictate our choices in life

 

Free will is an illusory concept (like many other things), because the 'self' is not an entity per se, but simply a decision-making mechanism. It's so much something that makes decisions as much as it is the actual process of making decisions.

Anyway, I sympathize with the guy. Of course, I don't encourage what he did, but it takes a lot of pain to drive someone to that point. If not, the person is neurologically wired to be a loose cannon, in which case you still can't blame them. It's not his fault that he was born into that mind, body and environment which would lead him to that point, and it could have been any one of us in his place, given the right factors. It was a really fucked up thing, but life's fucked up like that.

 

That's pretty much my stance. I used to be on the other side, you know part of the angry mob, but those types of feelings and attitudes are irrational, imo. It's a defense mechanism or something, cuz you're so shocked and don't want to admit that you, as a fellow human being, are capable of something so destructive to our species (my theory anyways). I mean if you're not part of the solution...

I mean where do you think he got the idea? It's not exactly an original. These things aren't random.

 

As usual, I love skywalker's insight.

So few understand the sympathy i have for the victims, as well as the perpetrator.

 

Not trying to start a fight, but I cant seem to stop posting my comments on this incident. Can I ask you a question? If your sister or brother of father or whatever had been shot by this fuck, would you still abstain from joining the angry mob? Would you still be as compassionate in your feeling regarding this guy? I assume you were lucky enough not to be directly touched by this, but don t you think people have the right to flip out in anger over this stuff? Arent there some instances in life that warrent anger as a rational response to outraheously unfair acts of malevelent violence?

 

It's okay, man. I can't seem to stop either...my add put me on hyperfocus from time to time.

hmmm To quote the simpsons' Reverend Lovejoy: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>[SIZE=-1]"...ooooh short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but..." [/SIZE]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



Human emotions are very very complex and not completely understood. This is kind of one of those unanswerable questions almost, but I imagine Buddha and Jesus had something better than I to say about this issue...

 

So we can't blame criminals for commiting horrible acts on the rest of our law abiding populice? Its not anyone fault that this guy (and countless others) methodically carry out senseless and brutal acts on innocent kids who have no way of defending themselves?

"It's not his fault that he was born into that mind, body and environment which would lead him to that point, and it could have been any one of us in his place, given the right factors."

I mean we have a name for those people right? Criminals? Isnt that what they are called? I mean you could use the same defense for just about everyone. The BTK killer didnt mean to rape and torture and kill a bunch of people. Society made him do it, society and just some goold old fashioned bad luck to be born a ruthless sociopath with no feeling of empathy for anyone.

By your rationale, all the jails in America should be opened and pardons handed out for all. Evil exists. It should be battled with the sam ferocity by which it presents itself. Human beings are still partially goverened by primative motivations. A civilized society has no place for people who allow their basal instincts to overtake rational thought resulting in the deaths of 30+ people. They tried to get him help, they tried to send him to counciling. The other students even tried to befriend this shithead. He wanted no part of it.

Again, not meant to start a fight, just a little devils advocate.

 

[quote name='chronictoker']It's okay, man. I can't seem to stop either...my add put me on hyperfocus from time to time.

hmmm To quote the simpsons' Reverend Lovejoy: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=j>[SIZE=-1]"...ooooh short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but..." [/SIZE]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Haha! Thanks for making me laugh. I forgot how much I love the Simpsons.

 

Who of us can honestly say we haven't had the urge to unleash a spree of violence in our most frustrated hour?

 

I think Skywalker is talking from a deterministic point of view.

It's cause and effect. The individual is simply the mechanism for circumstance. Certain variables equal the result we see.

That's certainly how I see it. Doesn't mean that individual is innocent. both Mens Rea and Actus Reus are in effect.

 

If you're interested in the human condition and psychology and such, then I suggest you read In Cold Blood, by Truman Capote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_Family_murder

It's fairly relevant to the Virginia Tech shootings I would say, although it's an entirely different situation. It gave me some insight into the disturbed mind of a psychopath. Frankly, I have a dark side to me. This stuff fascinates me (I'm not sure if that's good or bad) to an extent as it also sickens me saddens me.

 

Have any of you read a book called "Confessions of a Mafia Contract Killer"? I think its new (hardback) and its basically the bio of one Richard Kuklinski. Some of you guys may have seen some of his specials on HBO titled "The Iceman"

Chilling fucking read.

This dude was the son of these poor Polish immigrants growing up in New Jersey. The title character was HORRIBLY abused as a child, he was beaten mercilessly by his father, often to the point that he would pass out and wake with his entire head swollen to the size of a watermellon. The abuse was often continued by his mother, in fact his brother, older by a year, was hit so hard by the father, the blow killed him. It was passed off to the authorities as a domestic accident.

Anyway, the shit went on and on, now Richard was being tormented by local bullies, they were assaulting him with pipes and bats and shit. So he decides he has had enough. At like 13 years old, he waits for the lead bully to walk out of their housing complex. He then stalks the guys a few yards and procedes to beat the bully into a bloody pulp with a wooden closet rod. He actually has the wherewithall to steal a car, and drop the body off a pier or something.

His actions were never found out. He realized this was his "talent" in life. He went on to start up a few street gangs of his own, perfecting his killing techniques by wandering around New York killing strangers with guns, crossbows, cyanadide, what have you. He claims he was perfecting his craft.

He went on to become the #1 hitman for the Demeao crime family. He tortured and killed like I dont know, a thousand people over 20 years. He said he loved his work, it was what he was good at. He would even perfect his techniques, he would stake out his victoms in caves in a wooded area and have giant norway rats devour them alive, hje would set up a video camera to recod the events.

Heres my point. The book is basically like 400 pages of carnage. It describes every violent act in great detail as the author was working closely corroborating shit with him while he (Richard) was in jail. Its really brutal horrible shit. BUT he does explain how the guy got to be that way (psych. profile on his abusive childhood and what not) point is, after 400 pages of twisted intentionally perpetrated violence, the author describes that he bellieves the ICEMAN was actualy poisoned in jail by Sammy "The Bull" Gravano in an effort to keep some new testimony out of the courts.

This was one of his final statements,

"Upon refelction Richard added: "I was made. I didnt create myself. I never chose to be this way, to be in this place. Yeah for sure I wish my life would have taken another turn, that I had an education and a good job, but none of that was in the cards for me. I am what I am, and the truth is I dont give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of me."

Boo motherfucking hoo.

The guy once tortured and gutted a man on a pier, he then set a life preserver (ironic) around his shoulders and fed him to the sharks. He said he wanted the sharks to eat him, didnt want the guy to "just drown."

Fucking animal should have been put down like a rabid dog. I could care less what his (admittedly) sad childhood was like.

But granted (haha) this is a bit of an extreme case. Sort of on subject though.

By the way the author ends the book "Rest in peace Richard Kukclinski"

 

Read it twice, amazing book.

-EDIT I have not seen the second Capote film (I hear both are good) but I believe in the second film there are some allusions to Mr. Capote actually developing some sort of "crush" on one of the killers while he was in jail. I think given that circumstance (if it's true) you could make the argument that the book had some subversive thoughts regarding empathy for the murderers of a small rurual family. Right? I mean how "on the fence" can you be as a journalist if you are possibly in love with one of your subjects. If this is all heresay, then I apologise.

 

I know, believe it or not, part of me sides with you two.

But heres the thing. Its easy to feel sorry for anybody. Thats one of the great things about being human (most of us anyway). When they show a guy on the news walking towards an execution chamber, of course our heartstrings are going to be plucked. Here stands a (visibly) "normal" guy, it seems inhuman to inject him with substance that will intentionally cause his heart and brain (both perfectly healthy organs) to fail.

The thing is, most people don't play the whole tape back in their minds. Most dont recall the horendous shit some of these people did. It always comes down to "What if it was you" your family slaughtered senselessly or whatever.

Empathy is a terrific thing, its what NORMAL DECENT people feel by default. Some of these guys commiting these acts lack anything close to empathy. To me, that makes them INHUMAN, and I think they forfeit the right to exist with "the rest of us."

Philisophical debates are fun, and frustrating, and perfect to be discussed on the internet with all you fine, bright, thoughtful people.

But we as a society also need some sort of practical applications of Philosophy correct? Some sort of standard MOST can adhere to pretty easily.