Syrian Uprising, Civil War, Intervention, Etc.

LSYouTiger · Dec 18, 2011

Yea but this time, one side will be funded by US, and the other by China and Russia.

AlienBlood · Dec 21, 2011

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BbWlFIZnHY&feature=g-u&context=G222a3e2FUAAAAAAAAAA]Raw Video: 150 Reported Dead in Syria - YouTube[/ame]

Norma Stits · Dec 21, 2011

LSYouTiger said:

Hardly been there. We have had war everywhere else. Africa is still in the same shit hole since the imperial times.

It's got to change eventually, and what better way to start change than with a war.
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hardly been there?

we just changed regimes in Libya..

FormerPothead · Dec 21, 2011

Anyone who thinks the "arab spring" wasn't funded,armed,and planned by the CIA-MOSSAD years in advanced is naive at best. These plans go back all the way to 95'

LSYouTiger · Dec 22, 2011

AugustWest said:

hardly been there?

we just changed regimes in Libya..
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That was "UN". That's like north east, that's basically middle east.

I'm talking like all the other shit in Africa. Like west and south. That africa

Johnny Cash · Dec 22, 2011

LSYouTiger said:

That was "UN". That's like north east, that's basically middle east.

I'm talking like all the other shit in Africa. Like west and south. That africa
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It's called sub-Saharan Africa. Europeans or people from the European diaspora have wreaked plenty of havoc there as well.

metalplusweed · Dec 28, 2011

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldIQffbvWXQ]Victims Of Syrian Dictator Mob Arab League Observers Begging For Protection - YouTube[/ame]

Johnny Cash · Dec 28, 2011

I hope the Arab league intervenes. There's plenty of solidarity between Arab muslims for Syrians to accept intervention from Libyans, Tunesians or maybe Egyptians. This solution would be a million times better than another NATO-led or supported revolution followed by fiscal or physical domination by the West.

AlienBlood · Jan 3, 2012

Syria opposition leader: In post-Assad era, Damascus would likely end its alliance with Iran

A Syrian opposition leader said that a post-Assad regime in Damascus would likely see a change in Syria's relationship with Iran, according to a Washington Times report published Monday.

"This primarily depends on the Iranian position toward the regime change," said Samir Nashar, a member of Syrian National Council's executive board. "If they are willing not to adopt hostile position, we expect the relation to be a positive one, which might not be similar to the relation of strategic alliance, but more a relation between two sovereign countries, like those between Iran and Turkey".
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metalplusweed · Jan 5, 2012

al assad said they are in a phase of genocide..

xmaspoo · Feb 2, 2012

Russia Reiterates: UN Syria Resolution Will Be Vetoed -- News from Antiwar.com

Though the declaration still failed to put an end to hours of speeches, Russia has reiterated today that it intends to veto the anti-Syria resolution being pushed by the Arab League at the United Nations Security Council.

Russia has been fairly clear about this since before the resolution was even proposed, saying it would reject the vague draft over concerns that NATO or the Arab League would use the mention of unspecified â€œconsequencesâ€ as an excuse to launch a military invasion.

After a day of long-winded speeches condemning Syria and Russia yesterday, mostly insisting that an invasion wasn't even being considered, Russia's ambassador Vitaly Churkin made the position clear again, saying any Syria resolution not explicitly ruling out military intervention would be vetoed. And despite the claims that Russia is merely being paranoid, there appears to be no interest in putting such assurances in writing.

Despite the resolution being dead on arrival, French FM Alain Juppe expressed hope that a deal could be reached with Russia that would allow the resolution to pass next week. He insisted the speeches by NATO members were â€œgrounds for positive thinking.â€
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NoHzee · Feb 2, 2012

Our intervention does nothing but cost more lives and create more bloodshed, not to mention that we just simply can't afford to be over there in the first place. If we really care about the Syrian people and not their oil, we won't get involved in their affairs.

We can do the most for the Syrians by doing nothing at all.

xmaspoo · Feb 5, 2012

Presenting The Russian Naval Base In Tartus, Syria, Or Good Luck UN Security Council | ZeroHedge

UPDATE: Hardly reassuring (from Bloomberg): *U.S. IS `DISGUSTED' WITH RUSSIA, AMBASSADOR RICE SAYS AT UN

The world is suddenly aflutter in its usual fake indignation (how many times have we seen this) having realized what has been going on in Syria for months on end. It was none other than the Headhunter In Chief who "condemned the "unspeakable assault" Saturday by Syrian forces on the city of Homs, a sustained attack that activists say killed more than 200 people in what may be the bloodiest confrontation of the uprising against Bashar Assad's regime. The assault sparked fierce international outcry ahead of a meeting Saturday of the U.N. Security Council, where the U.S. and other nations are pushing for a vote on an Arab League-backed resolution calling for Assad to step down." Needless to say, just like in the case of Libya, both China and Russia are now a confirmed veto for any security council resolution that enforces a regime change, no fly zone, or what have you. Only this time the stake for Russia (and China as well, as Syria is nothing but a gateway to Iran), are far higher.

And as Zero Hedge noted regarding Iranian developments yesterday, "We've seen this play by play many times before and frankly at this point the posturing is getting just silly. What we do want to find out, however, is how will Russia get involved in all of this. Because if recent actions are any precedent, we fully expect Putin to send an aircraft carrier, purely symbolically, in the Arabian Sea himself, just to indicate that any invasion, pardon, liberation, of Iran crude, will first have to go through him. And not to mention China... or India."

Sure enough, speaking of aircraft carriers, it was none other than the Russian navy's aircraft carrier Kuznetsov that landed at the Russian naval base in Tartus "in support of the al-Assad regime" back in November, and it is the Tartus base that is arguably one of the most critical locations for the US military vis-a-vis developments in the middle east. And here is why Russia will block any attempt by the west to impose its own will in Syria.
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The Russian naval base in Tartus, Syria.

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Tartus hosts a Soviet-era naval supply and maintenance base, under a 1971 agreement with Syria, which is still staffed by Russian naval personnel. The base was established during the Cold War to support the Soviet Navy's fleet in the Mediterranean Sea. During the 1970s, similar support points were located in Egypt and Latakia, Syria. In 1977, the Egyptian support bases at Alexandria and Mersa Matruh were evacuated and the ships and property were transferred to Tartus, where the naval support base was transformed into the 229th Naval and Estuary Vessel Support Division. Seven years later, the Tartus support point was upgraded to the 720th Logistics Support Point.

In 1991, the Soviet Union collapsed and its Mediterranean fleet, the 5th Mediterranean Squadron which was composed of ships from the North Sea Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet, ceased its existence. Since then, there have been occasional expeditions by Russian Navy vessels and submarines to the Mediterranean Sea. The naval logistics support base in Syria is now part of the Black Sea Fleet. It consists of three floating docks of which one is operational, a floating workshop, storage facilities, barracks and other facilities.

Since Russia forgave Syria of three-fourths, or $9.6 billion, of its $13.4 billion Soviet-era debt and became its main arms supplier in 2006, Russia and Syria have conducted talks about allowing Russia to develop and enlarge its naval base, so that Russia can strengthen its naval presence in the Mediterranean. Amid Russia's deteriorating relations with the West, because of the 2008 South Ossetia War‎ and plans to deploy a US missile defense shield in Poland, President Assad agreed to the port's conversion into a permanent Middle East base for Russia's nuclear-armed warships. Since 2009, Russia has been renovating the Tartus naval base and dredging the port to allow access for its larger naval vessels.

On September 8, 2008, ten Russian warships docked in Tartus. According to Lebanese-Syrian commentator Joseph Farah, the flotilla which moved to Tartus consisted of the Moskva cruiser and four nuclear missile submarines. Two weeks later, Russian Navy spokesman Igor Dygalo said the nuclear-powered battlecruiser Peter The Great, accompanied by three other ships, sailed from the Northern Fleet's base of Severomorsk. The ships would cover about 15,000 nautical miles (28,000 km) to conduct joint maneuvers with the Venezuelan navy. Dygalo refused to comment on reports in the daily Izvestia claiming that the ships were to make a stopover in the Syrian port of Tartus on their way to Venezuela. Russian officials said the Soviet-era base there was being renovated to serve as a foothold for a permanent Russian navy presence in the Mediterranean.

In 2009, RIA Novosti reported that the base would be made fully operational to support anti-piracy operations. It would also support a Russian naval presence in the Mediterranean as a base for "guided-missile cruisers and even aircraft carriers".
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metalplusweed · Feb 5, 2012

props to russia and china dont let the un fuck with you

LSYouTiger · Feb 5, 2012

xmaspoo said:

Presenting The Russian Naval Base In Tartus, Syria, Or Good Luck UN Security Council | ZeroHedge
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It's about time they show the west what the fuck is up. They either are going to let the middle east settle their own shit or start WW3.

I support Russia and china action.

xmaspoo · Feb 6, 2012

Report of the Head of the League of Arab States Observer Mission to Syria for the period from 24
December 2011 to 18 January 2012

25. On being assigned to their zones and starting work, the observers witnessed acts of violence
perpetrated by Government forces and an exchange of gunfire with armed elements in Homs and Hama. As a
result of the Mission's insistence on a complete end to violence and the withdrawal of Army vehicles and
equipment, this problem has receded. The most recent reports of the Mission point to a considerable calming of
the situation and restraint on the part of those forces.

26. In Homs and Deraâ€˜a, the Mission observed armed groups committing acts of violence against
Government forces, resulting in death and injury among their ranks. In certain situations, Government forces
responded to attacks against their personnel with force. The observers noted that some of the armed groups
were using flares and armour-piercing projectiles.

27. In Homs, Idlib and Hama, the Observer Mission witnessed acts of violence being committed against
Government forces and civilians that resulted in several deaths and injuries. Examples of those acts include the
bombing of a civilian bus, killing eight persons and injuring others, including women and children, and the
bombing of a train carrying diesel oil. In another incident in Homs, a police bus was blown up, killing two
police officers. A fuel pipeline and some small bridges were also bombed.

28. The Mission noted that many parties falsely reported that explosions or violence had occurred in
several locations. When the observers went to those locations, they found that those reports were unfounded.

29. The Mission also noted that, according to its teams in the field, the media exaggerated the nature of the
incidents and the number of persons killed in incidents and protests in certain towns.
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D. Confirming the withdrawal of the military presence from residential neighbourhoods in which
demonstrations and protests occurred or are occurring

39. Based on the reports of the field-team leaders and the meeting held on 17 January 2012 with all team
leaders, the Mission confirmed that all military vehicles, tanks and heavy weapons had been withdrawn from
cities and residential neighbourhoods. Although there are still some security measures in place in the form of
earthen berms and barriers in front of important buildings and in squares, they do not affect citizens. It should
be noted that the Syrian Minister of Defence, in a meeting with the Head of the Mission that took place on 5
January 2012, affirmed his readiness to accompany the Head of the Mission to all sites and cities designated by
the latter and from which the Mission suspects that the military presence had not yet been withdrawn, with a
view to issuing field orders and rectifying any violation immediately.

40. Armoured vehicles (personnel carriers) are present at some barriers. One of those barriers is located in
Homs and some others in Madaya, Zabadani and Rif Damascus. The presence of those vehicles was reported
and they were subsequently withdrawn from Homs. It has been confirmed that the residents of Zabadani and
Madaya reached a bilateral agreement with the Government that led to the removal of those barriers and
vehicles.
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70. The purpose of the Protocol is to protect Syrian citizens through the commitment of the Syrian
Government to stop acts of violence, release detainees and withdraw all military presence from cities and
residential neighbourhoods. This phase must lead to dialogue among the Syrian sides and the launching of a
parallel political process. Otherwise, the duration of this Mission will be extended without achieving the
desired results on the ground.

71. The Mission determined that there is an armed entity that is not mentioned in the protocol. This
development on the ground can undoubtedly be attributed to the excessive use of force by Syrian Government
forces in response to protests that occurred before the deployment of the Mission demanding the fall of the
regime. In some zones, this armed entity reacted by attacking Syrian security forces and citizens, causing the
Government to respond with further violence. In the end, innocent citizens pay the price for those actions with
life and limb.

72. The Mission noted that the opposition had welcomed it and its members since their deployment to
Syria. The citizens were reassured by the Mission's presence and came forward to present their demands,
although the opposition had previously been afraid to do so publicly owing to their fear of being arrested once
again, as they had been prior to the Mission's arrival in Syria. However, this was not case in the period that
followed the last Ministerial Committee statement, although the situation is gradually improving.

73. The Mission noted that the Government strived to help it succeed in its task and remove any barriers
that might stand in its way. The Government also facilitated meetings with all parties. No restrictions were
placed on the movement of the Mission and its ability to interview Syrian citizens, both those who opposed the
Government and those loyal to it.

74. In some cities, the Mission sensed the extreme tension, oppression and injustice from which the Syrian
people are suffering. However, the citizens believe the crisis should be resolved peacefully through Arab
mediation alone, without international intervention. Doing so would allow them to live in peace and complete
the reform process and bring about the change they desire. The Mission was informed by the opposition,
particularly in Darâ€˜a, Homs, Hama and Idlib, that some of its members had taken up arms in response to the
suffering of the Syrian people as a result of the regime's oppression and tyranny; corruption, which affects all
sectors of society; the use of torture by the security agencies; and human rights violations.

75. Recently, there have been incidents that could widen the gap and increase bitterness between the
parties. These incidents can have grave consequences and lead to the loss of life and property. Such incidents
include the bombing of buildings, trains carrying fuel, vehicles carrying diesel oil and explosions targeting the
police, members of the media and fuel pipelines. Some of those attacks have been carried out by the Free
Syrian Army and some by other armed opposition groups.

76. The Mission has adhered scrupulously to its mandate, as set out in the Protocol. It has observed daily
realities on the ground with complete neutrality and independence, thereby ensuring transparency and integrity
in its monitoring of the situation, despite the difficulties the Mission encountered and the inappropriate actions
of some individuals.

77. Under the Protocol, the Mission's mandate is one month. This does not allow adequate time for
administrative preparations, let alone for the Mission to carry out its task. To date, the Mission has actually
operated for 23 days. This amount of time is definitely not sufficient, particularly in view of the number of
items the Mission must investigate. The Mission needs to remain on the ground for a longer period of time,
which would allow it to experience citizens' daily living conditions and monitor all events. It should be noted
that similar previous operations lasted for several months or, in some cases, several years.

78. Arab and foreign audiences of certain media organizations have questioned the Mission's credibility
because those organizations use the media to distort the facts. It will be difficult to overcome this problem
unless there is political and media support for the Mission and its mandate. It is only natural that some negative
incidents should occur as it conducts its activities because such incidents occur as a matter of course in similar
missions.

79. The Mission arrived in Syria after the imposition of sanctions aimed at compelling to implement what
was agreed to in the Protocol. Despite that, the Mission was welcomed by the opposition, loyalists and the
Government. Nonetheless, questions remains as to how the Mission should fulfil its mandate. It should be
noted that the mandate established for the Mission in the Protocol was changed in response to developments on
the ground and the reactions thereto. Some of those were violent reactions by entities that were not mentioned in the Protocol. All of these developments necessitated an expansion of and a change in the Mission's mandate.
The most important point in this regard is the commitment of all sides to cease all acts of violence, thereby
allowing the Mission to complete its tasks and, ultimately, lay the groundwork for the political process.

80. Should there be agreement to extend its mandate, then the Mission must be provided with
communications equipment, means of transportation and all the equipment it requires to carry out its mandate
on the ground.

81. On the other hand, ending the Mission's work after such a short period will reverse any progress, even
if partial, that has thus far been made. This could perhaps lead to chaos on the ground because all the parties
involved in the crisis thus remain unprepared for the political process required to resolve the Syrian crisis.
82. Since its establishment, attitudes towards the Mission have been characterized by insincerity or, more
broadly speaking, a lack of seriousness. Before it began carrying out its mandate and even before its members
had arrived, the Mission was the target of a vicious campaign directed against the League of Arab States and
the Head of the Mission, a campaign that increased in intensity after the observers' deployment. The Mission
still lack the political and media support it needs in order to fulfil its mandate. Should its mandate be extended,
the goals set out in the Protocol will not be achieved unless such support is provided and the Mission receives
the backing it needs to ensure the success of the Arab solution.
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xmaspoo · Feb 7, 2012

Russian foreign minister in talks with Assad - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

President Bashar al-Assad was "fully committed" to ending the bloodshed in Syria, Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, has said after his talks with Assad in the country's capital, Damascus.

"We (Russia) confirmed our readiness to act for a rapid solution to the crisis based on the plan put forward by the Arab League," Lavrov said on Tuesday.

Lavrov said he had had a "very useful" meeting with Assad and that Moscow was eager to work towards a solution based on an Arab League plan that it had previously criticised.

He added that Syria was also ready to see an enlarged Arab League mission in the country, Russian news agencies said.

The development comes even as regime tanks pounded the central city of Homs for a fifth straight day.

Earlier in the day, large crowds greeted Lavrov as his convoy drove to Damascus from the airport, according to Syrian state television.

Lavrov was expected to use his visit to press Assad into implementing democratic reforms after Russia and China vetoed any UN-backed measures against the Syrian government over its crackdown on the 11-month uprising.

Both Russia and China have faced international condemnation after vetoing the UN resolution. But Lavrov said ahead of his visit that condemnation of Moscow's veto had verged on "hysteria".

Moscow had sought "the swiftest stabilisation of the situation in Syria on the basis of the swiftest implementation of democratic reforms whose time has come", he said.

Al Jazeera's Rory Challands, reporting from Moscow said that though expectations for the effect of Lavrov's visit on the Assad regime are low, the Russian foreign minister may be looking to engage with the Syrian opposition as well as the nation's leadership.

In engaging with the opposition, our correspondent said Lavrov may be in search of moderates within the movement.
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Sergei Srokan, a Russian political analyst said in finding the moderates in the opposition, Lavrov could show that "all those calling for President Assad to immediately step down don't represent even the whole of the Syrian opposition."

The Al Jazeera correspondent said that the presence of moderates within the opposition could be important, because what Moscow - who have had a long relationship of trade and arms sales with Damascus - wants to avoid is "a catastrophic collapse as we've seen in Libya".

Ambassadors recalled

The Russian initiative came as Italy recalled its ambassador from Syria for consultations on Tuesday. It said its embassy would remain open and "continue to follow with maximum attention developments in an extremely grave crisis".

The move followed similar announcements from the United States, which shut its embassy in Damascus, and Belgium and Britain, which recalled their ambassadors on Monday.

In another sign of increasing pressure on the Assad government, Turkey said it was preparing a new initiative to end the bloodshed in Syria.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey's prime minister, said on Tuesday that the initiative would involve countries that stand by the people and not the Assad government, describing the recent Security Council resolution veto as "a fiasco for the civilized world".

"Those turning a blind eye to what's going on and those not reacting the way they should will suffer the consequences as if they were fuelling the bloodshed themselves," he said.
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The Turkish prime minister went on to criticise the five day military-led assault on the city of Homs, comparing it to the 1982 Hama massacre in which 17,000 - 40,000 Syrians are said to have died.

"No-one has been called to account for the Hama massacre - but you can be sure it will be asked for Homs sooner or later," said Erdogan on Tuesday.

Despite the diplomatic pressure, the violence continued in the key opposition stronghold of Homs, where witnesses said tanks and snipers began firing on residential areas from dawn on Tuesday.

Dozens of people have been killed in the military assault, according to activists.

Abu Abdo Alhomsy, an activist of a revolutionary council in Homs, described to Al Jazeera an attack on Tuesday on the city as live pictures showed smoke billowing into the sky.

'Snipers are everywhere'

The rocket shelling didn't stop through the night. The rocket shelling and the mortar bombing is all around Homs," Alhomsy said.

"The people don't have bread to eat. The condition in the neighbourhood is quite miserable. Snipers are everywhere. We are just waiting to be killed. We don't know what to do."

Syrian authorities, who have denied firing on houses, said security forces killed "tens of terrorists" in Homs on Monday morning. An interior ministry statement said six members of the security forces were killed in the clashes.

Syrian state television has accused "armed gangs" of being behind the latest violence in Homs.

Activists and witnesses said the army had been shelling Bab Amr "indiscriminately" since Sunday morning.

The death toll in Syria rose to at least 88 people over the weekend - one of the bloodiest since the uprising against Assad's government erupted last March.

Opposition groups say at least 6,000 people have now been killed in Syria.
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Thinker2357 · Feb 7, 2012

I want Assad out of there. The Syrian people need to be free.

xmaspoo · Feb 7, 2012

How enlightening, by what means do you suggest Assad relinquish his leadership position of the Syrian government?

Norma Stits · Feb 7, 2012

Thinker2357 said:

I want Assad out of there. The Syrian people need to be free.
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yeah.. they need freedom.

lets oust their dictator and force a new regime on them!

i hear it's all unicorns and rainbows in Iraq these days..

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