The question is stupid because it exposes your ridiculous response. So you don't think Hitler should have been stopped, as I have been saying. Talking about straw man... The funny thing is the answer is right in the quote you responded too. Can you read? Or are you going to keep asking until I say the US should invade because you are so keen on a knee-jerk reaction from the forum? "This image, which cannot be independently verified- is BELIEVED to to show the bodies of children." Hmm, sounds more like confusion to me. But sure, it's just propaganda!
Haha what? You asked if I disagreed with stopping a massacring idiot, which is a ridiculous question. No one would disagree with that. My point was the US occupation that always seems to follow these missions is not the answer. And, as I explained before, the only reason I brought that up is that seems to be a lot of people's go-to response to situations like these. To the other guy asking what I think should be done... I'm not entirely sure. We know what won't work. Its surely a fucked up situation, with both sides committing atrocities. It's not like you can fund one side to stop the evil that's going on. Sanctions hit the citizens harder than the people in charge, so that's not a strong option. Uu_ood, what exactly do you mean cutting off diplomatic relations? And chill out man, I'm not conspiring to get you to say something or another. There is far too much bickering going on, I'm honestly trying to steer the thread to a more productive route, i.e specifics on how to solve foreign crisises. don't take it so personally man.
[quote name='"xmaspoo"']Assad vs. Al-Qaeda Take your pick if you think you need to interject your opinion onto a foreign nation's civil war, because these are the only 2 sides with any sort of clout. Assad is a bad guy, more then obvious by now. The opposition forces are just as bad, so enough with the first world guilt.[/quote] Yeah except the Syrians had public rallies shouting and chanting for Obama to come, If the west wasn't to come it'd make sense to go to your next best option, The base.
Yet, that's the very quote you pinned on me to claim I wanted some sort of military intervention. So you either agree he has to be stopped and can't use it to support your idea that I support intervention, or you disagree with the notion. Well for once, Russia shouldn't be sending military aid to them. Russian Anti-Terror Troops Arrive in Syria - ABC News
And maybe we don't have to chill there, Honestly assassinating Assad and blowing up a few military bases would be enough to atleast level the playing field, How are you supposed to fight a helicopter shooting rockets with a mini gun attached, With a pistol
Okay. So what if the US was needed to stop Hitler? Instead of crying straw man, why don't you explain your position a little more than giving the same one-line response repeatedly.
I never claimed you wanted intervention, my initial "rant" wasn't all that directed at you. You criticized libertarians for condemning US intervention, and I merely attempted to respond to that. But whatever with that, I'm not all that interested in playing he said she said anymore haha. Pointless, if you ask me. Anyway, back to the real deal. I can support ending a crisis like this without supporting military intervention. There are more than one way to solve a problem. But I agree. Russia really shouldn't be sending military aid to them. However, what do we do in America to stop it? Tell them to stop? I don't think those words will hold much weight coming from a nation that tosses out billions in foreign aid a year and has military bases all over the world. Hypocrisy much? And I doubt Russia would really listen to us anyways. If our own country wasn't in such a mess at the moment, I'd say our leaders and leaders of other countries should be publicly condemning and speaking out, making sure the whole world knows what's going on. I think there should be more activism on the subject, for the same reason. Too many people just don't care enough to really do anything about it. It sucks because it would seem that if we could only just swoop over there, kill all the leaders of the bad guys, and let the people elect new leaders, everything would be okay. But it never works like that. Edit: just did a bit more reading into the situation, and someone made the point there may well be nothing all of us outsiders can really do immediately to help. There are a couple rebel groups at play, with differing amounts of dissent with the al-Assad regime, so that complicates things. Encouraging defectors from the regime and garnering up international opposition to the regime are our best bets, I'd say. Thoughts?
[quote name='"Lay Low"'] Never said that. I said the US shouldn't have got involved. Another straw man.[/quote] Germany declared war on u.s. We got involved
[quote name='"FireWork"'] I never claimed you wanted intervention, my initial "rant" wasn't all that directed at you. You criticized libertarians for condemning US intervention, and I merely attempted to respond to that. But whatever with that, I'm not all that interested in playing he said she said anymore haha. Pointless, if you ask me. Anyway, back to the real deal. I can support ending a crisis like this without supporting military intervention. There are more than one way to solve a problem. But I agree. Russia really shouldn't be sending military aid to them. However, what do we do in America to stop it? Tell them to stop? I don't think those words will hold much weight coming from a nation that tosses out billions in foreign aid a year and has military bases all over the world. Hypocrisy much? And I doubt Russia would really listen to us anyways. If our own country wasn't in such a mess at the moment, I'd say our leaders and leaders of other countries should be publicly condemning and speaking out, making sure the whole world knows what's going on. I think there should be more activism on the subject, for the same reason. Too many people just don't care enough to really do anything about it. It sucks because it would seem that if we could only just swoop over there, kill all the leaders of the bad guys, and let the people elect new leaders, everything would be okay. But it never works like that. Edit: just did a bit more reading into the situation, and someone made the point there may well be nothing all of us outsiders can really do immediately to help. There are a couple rebel groups at play, with differing amounts of dissent with the al-Assad regime, so that complicates things. Encouraging defectors from the regime and garnering up international opposition to the regime are our best bets, I'd say. Thoughts?[/quote] They do publicly speak out, but words do shit, they place embargoes, end diplomacy, Nothing stops Assad. Killing him and blowing up bases would level playing field
From a humanitarian stand point the politics shouldn't matter of who's in charge, its merely to slow the bloodshed, nothing more nothing less
Do they? I mean people getting passionate about it, enraged. And speaking out doesn't have to mean embargos. And I don't know how you'd go about killing him, and even if you did, it just creates a power vacuum. I'm sure one of his promising underlings would simply take over the fight. I doubt the government in place would just crumble, but I'm not too familiar how their government is set up over there. And bombing bases would most likely lead to even more civilian deaths, as I'm assuming they have a lot of their forces in the cities.
[quote name='"FireWork"'] Do they? I mean people getting passionate about it, enraged. And speaking out doesn't have to mean embargos. And I don't know how you'd go about killing him, and even if you did, it just creates a power vacuum. I'm sure one of his promising underlings would simply take over the fight. I doubt the government in place would just crumble, but I'm not too familiar how their government is set up over there. And bombing bases would most likely lead to even more civilian deaths, as I'm assuming they have a lot of their forces in the cities.[/quote] Well imp talking about their equipment, but the Assad regime like most has loyalty through money, Killing Assad and blowing up tanks and planes would make this a much fairer fight
I agree. Ideally I would like to see neighbouring countries intervene, maybe through the Arab league. They would have to remove Al Assad from power and let the Syrians organize elections. There is not much pointing towards the possibility of that happening, but maybe Al Assad will step further out of line and bring violence to neighbouring countries. This could boost support for Arab intervention.
These Syrian loyalists have some way to go to match the tally of the US administration over the last 20 odd years.. Amateurs... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo]Madeleine Albright Defends Mass-Murder of iraqi Children (500,000 Children dead) - YouTube[/ame]
What if Syria splintered into sub-regions? The Arab League is a joke, it's hardly non-partisan. Over half of it's membership is comprised of stooges for US interests. Algeria Bahrain Comoros Djibouti Egypt Iraq Jordan Kuwait Lebanon Libya Mauritania Morocco Oman State of Palestine Qatar Saudi Arabia Somalia \t Sudan \t Syria (suspended as of 16 November 2011) Tunisia \t United Arab Emirates Yemen
Still I'd rather it be done through them than through the West directly. We don't want any more Western soldiers in the Middle East.
How about we mind our own business and resolve the human rights violations we have ourselves in the West ? Syria is Syrian business. The Syrian government allegedly killed 100 odd people in this incident and the world is up in arms. The US kills 500,000 children in Iraq and it was "sanctions" ? The West is full of hypocrites in their ivory towers.
I think the West can take a diplomatic stance but not a military stance. We can refuse to support Al Assad's government in any way because of his war crimes.
Or we can just kill him, or atleast order air strikes on military bases housing planes and takes. Yeah itd make a power vacuum, But that's wayyyy better than shooting a 9mm at a fucking tank. My heart truly goes out to those dudes, there doing shit we wish we had the balls to do, , fucking getting killed probably 10 to 1 (if including citizens) but not giving a fuck and still fighting, While we sit here debating whether we should just watch or do something that could help them, without probably losing a life,, I hate international politics, China and Russia are the ONLY reason Assad isn't being dragged through town.