Super Growth Using Ultrasonic Frequencies!

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by Dug, May 12, 2009.

  1. WTF happened to DUG anyone ever get anywhere with this
     
  2. He said it work for him, so it would be safe to say that it will work for us too.
     
  3. I am tryin out a bug repeller just to keep insects and mites away got it in the closet runnin 24 hours if it boosts growth......bonus and if they start getttin all lanky and stretchy I will have to gradually up the nutes!
     
  4. I think he said that you had to modify the frequency of the repller to work.
     
  5. you can get dog whistle apps on the iphone for free. and you can get a range of frequencies so couldn't you just find the right frequency and hook up a pair of headphones to it?
     
  6. hey dug i happend to stumbleon to your thread and after reading mahn,something popped up in my head from when i was in high school,there was a kid who did a report on plant growth under power lines and it was in the sqaure area where the the power lines based at showed 65% increase of growth,the only problem is i cant find and substantial informatin on it,but somethin simple i did find was that most power lines do throw off 50 to 60 hertz;) so i belive im gonna be trying this with some clones, i take off next year from my outdoor grow next year,and ill have a nice journal for every body and ill be using a good strain too,but im gonna put clones under rite as the start flowering so most ove the energy is all for hopefully for a very nice expl:psion,tell me what you think about the idea
     
  7. #90 puntacometa, Oct 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2009

    Since the original title to this thread stated that ultrasonic frequencies were helpful but then recited that cycles between 20Hz and 50Hz were beneficial, there seems to be a bit of confusion. It's pretty easy to reproduce 40-60Hz on a high-end stereo system. Add a good sub and crossover and you can achieve 20Hz without totally breaking the bank. This is not really ultrasonic at all, though most people can't hear a 20Hz test tone, just due to age and hearing damage/limitations. If it is cranked loud enough, you can certainly see it trying to blow out your speaker, if your speaker is capable of reproducing 20Hz....plus you can feel it if it's loud enough. Most consumer speakers plateau at around 45-50Hz.

    If you're wanting to get into ultra/subsonics that are inaudible to the human hearing spectrum, this is when you you start getting into the bigger bucks.

    You would actually be providing more ultrasonic frequency information by playing your acoustic guitar in the room with the plants than you could by reproducing music in most other ways that are affordable. Forget worrying about producing ultrasonic frequencies with an electric guitar. The amp won't go there. Also, an iPod or MP3 player simply does not have the ability to reproduce hi-resolution audio unless it has a digital-to-analog converter capable of reproducing frequencies above 20kHz and is hooked up to a speaker system that is also capable of this. Neither does a CD have any ultrasonic frequencies (and the sampling of a CD is on par with a high resolution audio MP3). Also many consumer stereo systems cannot reproduce ultra/subsonic frequencies.

    For many years, there have been interminably long threads on pro audio forums about the perceived benefits of recording audio above and below the frequency spectrum audible to the human ear. Without getting into the opinons about it (which don't have anything to do with plants), I can add a few things to this thread relative to reproducing music at ultra/subsonic frequencies.

    First of all, you will need an original sound source (not a prerecorded source that has been sampled at frequencies within the 20Hz-20kHz frequency ranges).

    Next, you will need a microphone to record this source that is capable of reproducing cycles that are above 20,000 kHz and below 20 Hz (the human ear, on it's best day, and mostly in younger listeners who have not yet created notches in the audible range of their hearing by having blasted their eardrums with very loud music like constantly wearing earbuds/headphones and/or cranking their car or home stereos to 11. Most rock musicians who have been standing on stages in front of their cranked amplifiers (this would apply to audience members at loud concerts too) with unprotected ears are going to fall into this category.

    Next, you will need an analog-to-digital converter (known in audio circles as an ADC) that can sample the cycles above/below 20Hz/20,000Hz being picked up by the microphone. A CD is mastered at 44.1 kHz and is incapable of reproducing true ultrasound. Some ADC's are capable of sampling at 88.2kHz to 96kHz. Others(more expensive) are capable of sampling up to 256kHz.........neither of which will do one iota of good if the microphone isn't capable of picking up these frequencies.
    http://www.neumann.com/download.php?download=lect0051.PDF

    Next, you will need a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) that can reproduce these frequencies that are inaudible to the human ear. Again, there are some that can reproduce from 88.1/96kHz and others that can reproduce up to 256kHz (expensive). You can spend many thousands of dollars if you want to.
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/358371-REG/RME_HDSP9632_HDSP_9632_PCI.html
    http://www.mercenary.com/weco.html
    Finally, you're going to need a tweeter that can reproduce the frequencies that the high resolution microphone and the ADC captured that is being reproduced by the DAC. Here's where you can spend some real money as well. For a full range speaker to reproduce the high and mid frequencies, you're looking at something like this:
    Tannoy Ellipse 10 Field Test-Mix reviews the Tannoy Ellipse 10 Studio Monitors

    Some cheap horns can actually kick out some high freq as well. I suppose that as long as you don't mind your plants listening to crappy sounding music, these would be OK ;)

    With it, you'd want to add a crossover circuit that started grabbing the frequencies around the 80HZ range and start reproducing those and the lower frequencies down below the range of audible human hearing.......some of these (he ones that can reproduce frequencies down to 5Hz) would work nicely for this:
    Velodyne

    I'm not discounting the idea that ultra/subsonics can affect vegetation. There are a number of ways to get there, but if you're talking about doing this wih recorded music, it's going to need to be more recently recorded music that was converted from analog to digital with a microphone and ADC that would create an HD sampling(like a hi-rez DVD). You're not going to get this with an upsampling of your favorite old Grateful Dead music because the ultra/subsonic frequencies were never sampled at frequencies above/below what could be recorded on analog tape and though tape can actually pick up higher frequencies, this will be limited by the microphone used on the original sound source and the ADC that was used to digitize the master tape.

    Finally, if you're playing back MP3's with a cheap home stereo or even hi resolution DVD's with the same home stereo, unless the DAC and speakers can reproduce frequencies above/below 20kHz/20Hz, your plants aren't getting any ultrasonic input at all.....none......zilch.

    One thing to consider when broadcasting frequencies that are inaudible to the human ear is the effect it may have on your pets....especially dogs. Some of the frequencies that repel rodents and insects might be incredibly annoying and stressful to your dog, kitty...etc. You might want to do some checking relative to this before introduing one of these devices into your home or somewhere close by where you could possibly be making the life of some poor critter incredibly miserable.
     
  8. #91 puntacometa, Oct 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2009



    50-60Hz is an audible frequency range. The hum from a ballast is around 60Hz. It's not ultrasonic by any stretch. I'm not saying that plants don't like this frequency. The same frequencies can be easily reproduced with many musical instruments.
     
  9. #92 puntacometa, Oct 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2009


    It is not an ultrasonic speaker unless it can reproduce frequencies above 20kHz and below 20Hz. 32Hz is not ultrasonic. Ultrasonic would be a very high frequency, above the audible range of human hearing. It is also not a subsonic speaker since 32Hz is probably around the lowest audible frequency that most humans can recognize.

    I am not trying to be critical of you or anyone here. I am an audio engineer by trade. I have friends who build high-end audiophile and studio mastering speaker arrays that cost many, many thousands of dollars. I hate to see folks being sucked in to a "system" that costs a lot of money when it is totally unnecessary, at least from a hardware standpoint. The Sonic Bloom speaker device is of questionable value to me. There is nothing special about that speaker array. The only thing unique about the system may be the foliar feeding nutes and the frequencies they have isolated that helps the plants grow. That CD could be ripped, flown into a spectrum analyzer and the frequencies isolated, analyzed and reproduced with just about any test tone program. It's not rocket science, though I do respect the R & D they spent in isolating beneficial frequencies and developing a product that helps augment the way those frequencies affect plant growth......if they actually work. I am not advocating ripping them off by taking their R & D and reproducing it without paying them for it. I am just trying to contribute a bit reality here relative to sound reproduction devices and the terminologies that are being used. 32Hz is not ultrasonic and can be reproduced by many different speakers that can be mounted in a wooden cabinet.
     
  10. Has anyone actually tried this method? It sound like it def worth a try. If you have done it care to share any finding you might have. Thank you
     
  11. Okay, I've been gone for awhile, but I did set up the circuit that dug posted, and took it to my electronics lab, to test it out. Turns out it's generating a 200 kHz signal :confused: which is way higher than we need. I'm trying to get my circuits professor to help me create a better circuit that will be within the 30-50 kHz signal we're looking for. Will let you know.
     
  12. He said it operates in the 32-64 kHz region, not Hz. 32 Hz would have no effect on rodents
     



  13. Hey mate. I think I can help you out with that. Just change the C1 capacitor with a bigger one.

    By the way, give it a go with the 200KHz, see if you get any resuts, you never know, right?

    Cheers.

    ~Dug

     


  14. Ahhh.....kHz. that is ultrasonic for sure. Not sure where I went off the reservation with that....but.....you're going to need a tweeter that can go there.

    Here's a speaker that's designed to entertain bats:
    http://www.fullcompass.com/product/233358.html;)
     
  15. We tried messing around with it a little, but since there are two capacitors, there are two RC combinations, and therefore two frequencies being generated. They combined to make a 200kHz signal, and when we tried using larger values for C1 we just got crazy mixed signals that weren't really any singular frequency. It was funky looking on the oscilloscope, for sure.
    and the reason i brought the circuit to my professor was that my tweeter was making some weird noise with the circuit as is. turns out, a 200 kHz signal messes with a tweeter designed only to go as high as 50 kHz. it doesn't work well.
     
  16. I haven't posted in a while because of some bad luck in my last grow I had lost interest (Lowrder 2s feminized seeds but 3/4 turned out to be males I was pissed). I have to decided to try a grow of Blueberry because of all the praise I have heard about the strain . Seeing both of your posts (Plantricity and this one) have really got me excited. Believe or not about 3 years ago I started wondering why plants couldn't run solely on electricity becuase in essence that's all leafs do is produce bio electricity to give the plant energy but I kinda thought it was a crazy idea. I have found a few simpler ways of accomplishing this for cheaper if anyone is interested.

    First the Ultrasound Generator:

    SONIC PESTCHASER - Sonic PestChaser

    Only 10.99 it has an oscillating frequency between 32khz and 62khz. BTW after doing some research I have found that humans can hear up to around 20khz while dogs and cats can hear up to 28khz so as long as you stay above that your pets should be fine (they use these to drive away rodents in residencies).

    Then for the Plantricity I have found that old cell phone chargers produce around the same 10v 500ma range small PV cells produce. I had three or four just laying around. So free or next to nothing and you can control when they are on and off so you can expierment with it while there in flowering (dark period). Maybe you can leave them on all the time and growth would continue even when its dark. I think it should be possible because the leafs think it is still getting later in the season because they are in the dark 12 hours a day. Maybe thats not right has anyone tried?

    BTW Dug you have inspired me and I appreciate it. We should all strive to think outside the box as much as he does. Some times you just gotta expirment.
     
  17. Woah, excellent post, Greenisking, great info, and a nice vibe, thanks.

    About the pestchaser, you mentioned it has an oscillating frequency, did you confirm the KHz yourself? If it works on those frequencies then it will certainly deliver the package!

    About using plantricity to facilitate growth during the dark hours, this remains to be confirmed, sounds deffinitely promising though. As far as I am concerned, the plants produce a certain compound to induce flowering, and this chemical can only be produced after several hours of darkness (10+).

    So what remains to be clarified is wether this compound will be produced if the plant is electrically stimulated. Like you said -great understanding-," in essence that's all leafs do is produce bio electricity to give the plant energy".

    If we take it a little further, what we need to figure out -and hopefully someone around here will already know- is the actual process with which this compound is produced. Why is it produced in the absence of light, exactly?

    Simply put, is it the light itself that inhibits it, as in, is it photosensitive? OR is it produced in the absence of ANOTHER process/compound, which exists only under light? In the latter case, is this other process/compound also sparkled by electricity? If yes, we'll have to find another way.
    But if this -elusive- compound is indeed photosensitive, or whatever other paragon causes it does not occur under electrical stimuli, then we're golden.

    If this is indeed the case, it means we can possibly increase the growth rate under flowering by 200%! And growth rate under flowering is extremely important, considering the fact that the more growth a plant has during this time, the more bud it will produce within the limitations of the fowering period. Amazing prospect.

    I hope somebody here has more knowledge about this subject, as I am neither a biologist nor a chemist. I am certainly intrigued, though! :smoking:


    Thegreenisking, good to have you around mate. Thanks for the thumbs up, and for the great info. Best of luck.


    ~Dug

     

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