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Super Growth Using Ultrasonic Frequencies!

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by Dug, May 12, 2009.

  1. #1 Dug, May 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2010
    We are continuing this convertasion over at the Fractal Culture forums. Feel free to drop by and help out, only the opening post has been recreated. I think you'll also like the forum topics a lot ;). Here is the link: http://www.fractalculture.com/exper...sonic-frequencies-experimental-technique.html

    I have been recently researching an experimental technique I came upon in a nature online magazine, consisting of bathing the plants with ultrasounds to boost their growth. This may very well be a revolutionary idea, and I deem it necessary to spread this information around so we may benefit from each other's experiments.

    This is not my idea, nor did I coin any of these terms, so no credit is due to me. I am just an intrigued mind, researching the possibilities that I stumble upon, for better results in my garden, and, well, just for the hell of it.

    Sooo fellow farmers/growers/tokerz/weed connoiceurs, this may very well be the actual cause behind the plants' positive response to music. Experiments done with music by many people (including me), show clearly that although music has a positive impact on plant growth/health, it is hard to define which kind of music works best. I have heard opinions on this matter ranging from classical music to, well, pure ol' rock 'n roll.

    Now, if we step back for a minute, we are certain to realise that although defining which kind of music works best may very well benefit us, but our logic says that the plants respond to the actual sounds of the music we are playing to them. To the harmonic tones, the frequencies, the beat, the core elements that consist a song. So it would seem logical to try and isolate the key elements that a plant wants from sound waves.
    Gone are the times where we would put beethoven's 9th symphony on repeat and have a clear concience that we did the best we could as far as sound goes.

    Although the notion that plants like good music may be very appealing to all of us, the truth -or rather the current model that we have for reality- is that plants only respond to sounds they know to mean something, through coded information in their genetics, like for example, the sound of a storm approaching. The high pitched sounds that birds produce. The ultrasonic frequencies that some incects can emmit. And many more that we may very well never know of.

    Experiments on the application of sound to plants have been held out by scientists before our time, and even Darwin was convinced that plant growth could be stimulated this way. The frequencies that could be produced at the time though, were far below the threshold of the beneficial frequencies we are going to experiment with.

    The audio range, which we can perceive, is generally accepted as the range up to 20KHz (or CPS). That is, 20.000 cycles per second, as in 20.000 vibrations of the sound wave per second. Plants have been found to respond well to the range of 20KHz up to 50KHz. The higher, the better.

    Experiments done with those frequencies, have revealed a staggering increase in plant growth of up to 150%. Now, my fellow explorers, dont be hasty, meditate on this for a minute. That's a 150% increase, so not half times bigger plants, but two and a half times bigger. Experiments were done with radishes, and the above mentioned increase was an average on plants growing for just 21 days, compared to a control plant population, grown without ultrasound.

    Now that I have your attention, let's dwelve into more technical matters.

    DO IT YOURSELF-it's the best way to find out.

    Remember those pest control devices that are advertised on TV, those that work with ultrasounds? Well, those are ultrasound generators. This is what we need to start our experiment. Unfortunately, those devices do not work on the required frequencies, and cost way more than they should.
    Maybe someone with more technical knowledge than me will be able to give us a how-to on tweaking such a device, as I am not an expert in technical stuff (actually I know only what I have learned through creating, maintaining and experimenting with my herb garden-we have the best hobby in the whole damn world fellow growers, hands down).

    So, as I consider these devices not suitable for our kinds of experiments, lets start figuring out what we need to build our own ultrasound generator. It is cheap, and easy if you're good with tools or beautiful. I have some images that I have found some time ago, while researching this matter, but I don't think I am allowed to upload yet. Been a reader for a long long time, not a poster though.
    However, I have uploaded the images showing the materials needed, the prices, and a diagram of the generator's circuit here:
    Materialz
    Diagram

    Again, just to be safe, let me state that Those images are not my property, and although I have no idea where I have taken them from, or when, the rights are still probably held by the original creator.
    The materials needed will not cost you more than 20-25$, and if you know what you are doing, creating the generator should be a matter of an hour or so.
    The created device should be tweaked so that it emmits sound waves as high as possible close to the 50KHz limit, or, why not, even further, with unknown results. Do this by changing the value of the C1 capacitor. Smaller capacitor, higher frequency.
    Isolate the growing area so that as little sound as possible will circulate your house. If you have pets, those frequencies may very well harm them. Find a way to avoid this. Your pet may not show any signs of distress, but the impact the sound has on it may be vast through the course of several hours. I wouldnt want to imagine how it would be. Maybe like having a primadonna screaming in your ear all the fucking time. No pets. Those frequencies are above the human capabilities, and there hasn't been any evidence that they are harmfull for humans in any way. There hasn't been evidence for the opposite neither, though. Rediscover the meaning of the phrases "responsibly", "caution", "at your own risk". Do not invoke Dug's wrath.

    Experiment. Change the timing cycle you have the generator on. Plants have been found to grow in the dark using ultrasounds. Experiment.

    There are, offcourse, other ways of obtaining an ultrasound generator, like the pest control devices mentioned above. If someone knows another way, be sure to give us a hint.

    OBSTACLES

    For an experiment to be beneficial, it is my understanding that it must be shared, discussed, criticised, revised, refined, and finaly evolved. Thus, here are some results that I have seen happening to my plants, and you should know beforehand to produce better ones.

    Plant growth- the plant growth indeed will blow your mind away. You may very well expect to see a huge increase in plant mass, and I'm not being funny. If you dont have the space to do this, then you will have to use a size controlling technique for your plants, like LST, Topping, SOG, ScroG and whatnot.

    Another issue is the plant physiology. Plants grown under ultrasound waves grow SO fast, that they cannot absorb the needed nutrients fast enough. Thus, you need to provide them with tricky ways of getting what they need, or you will end with plants that are tall and thin. Do not be dissapointed though, here are some ideas that I have tried or researched, and that you can combine to get the results you want:

    More light. More light. More light. Forget about 18/6 and all the other malarchey. Put your plants udner 24 hours of the most intense light you can get your hands on, and leave them there.

    Co2- find a way to provide more Co2 to your plants, they're gonna need it.

    More nutrients, fore often. Feed your plants as frequently as you can, they need more food, but if you give it to them all at once, you're gonna kill'em, mate. You need to make nutrient portions that you can give them as frequently as you can, so that they may absorb them. Again, Im not being funny. As frequently as you can, in small portions.

    Foliar feeding. Feel lucky, punk? Well, if you do, or, even better, if you feel you know that you are doing, aeroponics yould be the way to go here. If not aeroponics, then get a sprayer bottle and suplement their feeding with micro-portions of foliar feeded nutrients. When I say "don't overdo it", do you get a funny feeling in your stomach? If yes, skip foliar feeding.

    UVA and UVB light.-make 'em feel like they are in an orgiastic jungle enviroment. -Carefull mate, UVB can rain on your parade, and once the shit hits the fan with bad light radiating your skin/eyes, then my friend, it is gonna be a fucking shitstorm. Be carefull and responsible.

    Up your temps a little. Don't overdo it.

    Last, but not least, this technique seems to bind well with something else that I have only recently implemented. Electical root stimulation. Dont let it feel as bad as it sounds, plants use energy that they take through their leaves all the time. By supplementing this energy with >very< small electrical currents through their roots, I have achieved results worth hitting my extra-special reserve stash. More on this in another post.

    Word of Caution!
    All the techniques mentioned here, are not something a novice grower should be experimenting with, at least not without extreme caution. I myself am not an expert in any way, and, as I mentioned before, I am just an intrigued mind, researching the possibilities that I stumble upon from time to time.. There are other members in this forum who can explain in detail all these things, and give you advice that can protect you from harming your plants.

    ..now that we are through with the formalities,

    Go for it, mates. Exploring the various aspects of your garden, trying new things, experimenting, learning absolutely staggering pieces of information, achieving results unheard of, this is what this hobby should be about! Offcourse, the bud you will get out of the curing room for the first time, examine it under the light, smell it, and finally taste it, will be an awesome reward for your efforts. But dont passively do this only because you want pot. Enjoy it! Explore it! Its an awesome, rewarding occupation. Dont make it a mundane obligation. Do not invoke the wrath of Dug.


    PS: These are things that I have either tried myself, or researched from information found in various sources. These are things and techniques that work for me. Use any of them with caution, and in your own clear concience. Research everything before you implement it. Ask around. Read. If someone does not agree with something said here, it is perfectly acceptable. I dont claim to have found something that works for everyone, but that works for me. Don't come telling me how I made you burn your plants, only because you were reckless. Don't attract the wrath of Dug. Dug's wrath. No.

    -That said, I wish to everyone who gets on the same boat every success, try this for yourselves mates, these and other things, and share! Share, so that we may push a little further the envelope of creativity in our gardens. Do not keep things for yourself, no matter how revolutionary they are. Share. Do not invoke Dug's wrath.


    See you on the flip side..
     
  2. hey that is pretty damn interesting we just need some pictures of those plants that you have grown i would like to see a side by side of a plant grown with and a plant grown without, think it would work good with a hydro grow? I would attempt this but with 3 dogs in the house I certainly would not want to put their ears at risk very nice post tho :hello:
     
  3. This does sound promising! I read some research on this topic awhile back about ultrasonic root stimulation, and the controlled study showed a large improvement in growth over a "quiet" group. But I believe that the study also showed that the plants in the "quiet" group were more desirable growth traits then the ultrasonic. The Ultrasonic group provided faster, taller growth at the cost of less branching, spindly stems, but overall really healthy plants.

    Who knows???? I am more than willing to give it a throw, wife has a million of those Ultrasonic pest deterrents around, sure she will probably notice a couple are gone(oh well). So funny how she is soooo afraid of spiders and bugs.

    Most of these ultrasonic devices use less then a single watt of electricity so where's the harm in trying??
     
  4. This was my main problem. You have to overcome this by providing growing conditions and feeding that would otherwise kill a plant. It really gives me the feeling of an out of control jungle canopy, everything must be in excess.


    If you dont have pets then indeed, why not. Just try to get one of the more expensive devices, as these tend to produce higher frequencies. A good device should also have some kind of switch allowing you to select between two-three different frequencies. Just max this up.



    Thank you:)
    Certainly, I dont see any reason for it not to work as well w/ hydro. Yeah, you're right, the 3 dudes that you have in your house would certainly not like this.

    If you like experimenting with new stuff, try looking into root stimulation with photovoltaic cells :D
    Its not anything hard really, maybe I'll get to it and make a thread about it, pretty damn interesting stuff, mate.

    Dug.
     
  5. #5 Dug, May 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2009
    Found this in my hard drive, if I remember corectly its a statistical diagram showing plant growth of radishes over a period of 21 days, comparing plants stimulated with ultrasound, with a control population that wasn't.

    here




    Dug.
     

  6. LoL, otherwise kill a plant, huh? I think I can handle that... I am changing my room all about with those Ceramic MHs, getting larger reflectors for larger footprint, New CO2 controller(ppm one now :)), and making the dive into DWC *gulp* . Wish me luck!!

    Any advice on where to grab a good Ultrasonic Sound Generator?
     

  7. You can ask around in a TV repair shop, they usually have one around, maybe even for sale. Otherwise, just grab from a store a rat ridder that actually has written on it the frequency that it produces.

    If you take the circuit materials image that I posted to an electronics store, they will give you exactly what you need. You will also need a heat pen to glue the circuit, approx 10$. It will be an interesting work to pass your afternoon, just roll a fatty and get to it, I personally find working like this very relaxing.


    Straigt to hell :D


    Oy, sounds good, good luck mate. Looks like the ultrasound system would be a good addition to your room, you have the equipment to support the extra growth, and seing how it will blend with DWC will be interesting. Keep it up.


    Dug.
     
  8. Sonic Bloom!

    Just found this site, seems that the benefits of using sounds for boosting plant growth has not completely escaped the attention of the cropping community. Although I think this product uses natural sounds, not ultrasonic frequencies, it claims to have a big impact on crops, both in growth and quality of the harvested product.
     
  9. The Sound of Music and Plants

    Ah-haa! Interesting addition to our subject!

    Quoting:
    "The stimulated plants are energized to synthesize greater quantities of food, during a given period of time, which naturally leads to greater yields." His method of musical stimulation, has even increased chromosome count of certain species of water plants, and the nicotine content of tobacco leaves."

    How about that, huh?

    Here is another one:
    ""Ultrasonic" frequencies, markedly affect the germination and growth of barley, sunflower, spruce, jack pine, Siberian pea tree, and other seeds and seedlings. The experiments indicated, inexplicably, that enzyme activity, and respiration rates in plants, and their seeds, increased when they were stimulated by ultrasonic frequencies."

    Its a pretty interesting article, although I suspect it should be taken with a pinch of salt^^

    I have the feeling that sound is an unexplored tool, overlooked so far by the mj growing community. With the right experiments, we could unlock possibilities that we never thought existed.

    Why do I get the feeling that I am alone in this shit? We need more people eager to experiment with their plants. The cost and risk is minimal, and the potential benefits are overwhelming! Get involved.

    PS:~the author of this thread would like to kindly request that if you actualy try anything of the abovementioned techniques, don't be an asshole, share your results, if each one of us shares his findings instead of dicking around in his growroom alone, everyone will benefit. Cheers.


    ~Dug.
     
  10. #10 Dug, May 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2009
    Allright, so I just found out from Oxford's Journal of experimental botany (here) that plants actually emit ultrasonic and audible sounds through stem segments while dehydrating in air. Talk about some interesting info! According to this article, sounds produced are differentiated acording to the conduits dimensions. I wonder if a distinction can be made between sounds produced by male or female plants.

    Knowing the impact that ultrasounds have on plants, it would be really interesting to see the response that plants would have to amplified sounds of the same frequency/harmonic that other plants produce. How about that, mates? Sounds produced from our trees?

    First things first. It is now time to finally arm myself with a decent ultrasound meter/detector of some sort. Anyone with info on how to get my hands on one? Money is not an issue, offc.

    This thread is starting to take the form of a journal ^^


    ~Dug
     
  11. Still here mates, still working on it. Saw some good results already, I got to tell you, this is some pretty radical stuff. Gonna update the thread soon.


    Dug
     

  12. Awesome, dug. Sounds really interesting, I hope more people get to try it and post results!
     
  13. Here's a somewhat related article you may or may not have already read. Taken from: http://users.belgacom.net/gc681999/O...o/Ecosonic.htm
    Personally, I just throw flirtatious glances at my plants while playing the guitar and singing love songs. Still haven't found a more effective technique than this for incredible growth.

    Don't knock it till you try it! ;)
     
  14. Can any one point in the right direction with ak auto hydroponic not soil
     


  15. Mindnumbling, Smoove, thumbs up mate. How haven't we thought about resonant frequencies? This gives me some great ideas! What this dude is actually proposing, is that with sound we can actually control the production and behaviour of specific proteins!!

    Thats great info! Already trying to find out more about the molecular biology of cannabis plants. If I manage to reproduce this technique, it means that we'll be able to control specific aspects of our beloved tree's growth, like for example the production of THC. The posibilities seem to expand the longer we dwelve into this subject.

    Got some homework to do, it seems. Got to find out more about the molecular resonation of proteins, and how this can be calculated. Its another field of research alltogether, and one I am not very familiar with, I'm going to have to start from the bottom up. Its a great opportunity to dive into genetics, I'm not gonna loose it.

    I too am a fool for my ladies, mate. I'm sure they appreciate the music I play to them, at least they seem to, I hope they don't have any secret agenda^^.
    Truth be told, you can't be more right when you say that music and this feeling for your plants effects them.

    If you are interested about this, just try the following experiment.
    1)Take two identical jars, fill them with cooked white rice, and close the lids tightly.
    2)place a tag on each jar. On the one jar it should say "bad", "shitty", "rotten", "doomed", "die", etc etc, and on the other one it should say things like "love", "happy" "live", "good", "beautiful" and stuff like that.
    3)place them in a spot in the house where you frequently pass by. Every time you or someone else passes by them, he/she should encourage the good rice with good words, and curse the bad rice with the wors things he/she can think of.
    4)do this for a week.

    I am certain that you will be as amazed as I was with the results. This will fully demonstrate the power of words. One jar will be almost ok, with white rice and little to no mold, while the other will look like hell, covered with green mold and smelling like shit.


    The right direction for what mate? Aplying the ultrasound frequency techniques to your plants?
     
  16. i dont know if that rice thing will work. if it does im gonna shit.
     

  17. Similar experiments have been done to water:

    There you go!

    And there!


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkbpXRSIUnE&feature=related"]And here is a video![/ame]

    Its no secret anymore even to our western culture, mates, words and sound are powerfull tools within our grasp! If these things happen to water, and we are 70% water, imagine what negative feelings and words do to us^^

    Here is an experiment with rice!


    The japanese scientist who initiated these experiments is called Emoto. Search the net for more info.

    Take care.
    ~Dug.
     
  18. Hey everyone i am going to stop by and add my own to cents here. I am growing with Sonic Bloom and their special frequency device. I use it once a week and the plants LOVE it. I see dramatic growth after 24 hrs and am thinking of doing this more than once a week. But for now im gonna follow the directions. The foliar spray that they give you works great and is well balanced for the pot plant. I can post everything that is in it if you guys want. i will know after work today. I strongly suggest buying one of these units/foliar feed it helps immensly. I also use no nuts except this and superthrive:wave:
     
  19. Very interesting, mate. How much did you pay for the Sonic Bloom package?
    You got some pretty nice looking plant there :)

    ~Dug
     
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