I have done a little bit of research on these and the plasma lights are extremely expensive right now and I don't feel very confident about the light spectrum they put out. I looked up a unit at chameleongrowsystems.com and saw that it cost $1,000.00 for a 250 watt Plasma light unit. In addition to the prohibitive costs of plasma lights right now, there seems to be a problem with the light spectrum. For marijuana, you have chlorophyll a and b which is what absorbs the light and turns it into energy. For chlorophyll a, optimum light absorption occurs at 430nm and 662 nm in the light spectrum. For chlorophyll b, the optimum part of the light spectrum is at 453 and 642 nm. Here's a graph showing the spectrum for chlorophyll a and b. This page shows the light spectrum for the plasma lights. The colored in part of the picture is the spectrum of light put out by the sun. The jagged lines show the light spectrum put out by the plasma lights. From the picture, it appears that the most light is put out in the 500-600 nm range by plasma lights, which isn't useful for plant growth. In addition, marijuana plants need light in the 430-453nm range in order to have proper vegetative growth, and it looks like the light output by the plasma lights actually dips extremely low right in that crucial range. It's funny, because everywhere on the site, they use the picture that represents the spectrum put out by sunlight, almost as if they're trying to make you think that's the spectrum put out by their plasma lights. They never show a clear graph of the light spectrum put out by the plasma lights, just tiny pictures of graphs that you can barely see. Therefore, even if the plasma lights are extremely efficient and powerful, it appears that they are just producing a spectrum of light that isn't going to be very useful for plants growth. For me, I'm definitely waiting until the price comes way down and there are at least some sort of definitive studies come out showing that they actually work.
Heres some info and a couple of grows done over at opengrow with the Luxim 40-02 which the chamleon uses, spectrum is being adjusted for agro and Luxim advises end of this year they will have a better agro spectrum. And I'm not a big fan of the chameleon units.https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=40484&hl=plasma https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=40669 https://www.opengrow.com/index.php?showtopic=40312&hl=plasma&st=40 LiFi-STA Series by Luxim: Light Emitting Plasma Regards, S.S.
Any buddy have any updates on these? Im looking for info right now here is why they are supposedly better http://www.plasma-i.com/assets/site-graphics/spectrum-comp.jpg
I am gonna treat it like leds. When the growers i respect the most switch, so will I . I got sucked into the led hype and foud it to be just that, hype. that was a 400 dollar mistake i wont make again. when these new technologies are as proven as hps/mh, i will get one....oh yea., I am not spending 900 bucks for any light when a 200 dollar light is still the standard of the industry.
Where did you lift those charts & graphs from? I'm not to much of Sulfur Plasma fan, mechanical liabilities and if I remember correctly possible health risks from Micro Wave Freq. signals. The technology may have changed, I've never seen sulfur plasma put out so much in the red spec before. I am a fan of the Luxim M/H Plasma, the test grows on OpenGrow speak for them self, they were putting it up against what they commonly grow with 600w HPS and it didn't live up to it, but the results seemed to me to be equal to 400w HPS for 280w of consumption with the Luxim 40-02, the Luxim 41-02 is said to be 30% more efficient, supposed to be available now Luxim won't have a agro/aquarium bulb until end of year & possibly a higher watt light availble also. I just spent 9 months growing with 2-HGL 126w LED's, so I do have some experience with LED, LED compelled me to learn & have a better understanding of the light spectrum, IMHO plasma will deliver what LED promised for flowering, I've retired mine to the veg box and hung a new light in my flower box. As far as price, I would predict plasma won't drop very much from when its introduced, runs way cooler so that will off set the necessity for cooling watts & the long life span of the units & bulb. Regards, S.S.
These are still garbage. Their main emission is green. Plants do not absorb green. Therefore, any energy you use to output green is a waste of energy. That also pretty handily proves that being "like the sun" is not ideal for plants. Evolution is not perfect, and photosynthesis evolved in the ocean originally anyway. This is a chart you should reference when looking at ANY bulb or lighting technology to see how effective it will be for horticulture:
Also, there are no red-spectrum Sulfur Plasma lights. The chameleon systems are a hybrid of sulfur plasma and LEDs, which they do not readily tell you. edit: also LEDs work fine. They generally produce >1g/w. If your results are not what you want, you simply need more wattage. The whole 90W LED = 400W HID thing is a complete lie. I saw a recent comparison that showed that one of the new 126W penetrator LED panels was about as good as a 250W HID for growing bud by dry weight. Obviously, watt for watt, LED is better. AND significantly more expensive, which is the ONLY drawback of LED currently.
i read an article about plasma lights in rosebud magazine. basically theyre going to be awesome in like 10 years when the technology doesnt cost $20,000 per light.
The Chameleon uses the Luxim Metal Halide Plasma, model 40-02,http://www.luxim.com/pdfs/STA 40.pdf and as the graph in the link shows M/H Plasma does have red in it and blue. I grew with 2-HGL 126watters, did 3-4 grows, best I got was .5 g/per w, together they equal about a 250w HPS for flowering, I would almost believe there claims comparing them to 400waters for vegging, thats where mine ended up, in the veg box, I did get almost 1.gpw when I matched them with CFL's, it kinda of sux seeing folks spend about $100.00 on CFL's & sockets and get the same results that I spent $900.00 on HGL LED's. Sulfur Plasma can work, they can coat the bulb with I think broamide to get some red in it,not a real efficient source, IMHO M/H Plasma will be a viable lighting option, price is high but you won't need to change the bulb every 3-4 grows and A.C.'s watts can probably be reduced to 0-1 watts for every watt of ligth compared to HPS & A.C.'s using 3-4 watts for every watt of HPS, and LED's light Mfg. qoute the lifespan off the chip ask the Mfg.s how many hours there power supply's are rated at, usually alot less than the chips. I've seen a Luxim 40-02 and I can put my hand right under it and feel minimal heat, I should time how long I can keep my hand under it until it becomes un-comfortable, if you can check out the grow tests on OpenGrow with the Luxim Metal Halide 40-02, it looks comparable to a 400w HPS, you be the judge. Regards, S.S.
Of course it "has" red and blue. The point is that the emission spectrum is centered around green, since that's the emission line of sulfur. Any energy used to make green is wasted. The only question is whether HID wastes more on heat than sulfur plasma wastes on green. The winner is likely to win by a slim margin, considering the inefficiencies involved with both. Certainly emitting green light as waste is better than heat for cooling reasons though. They're also scaling that graph to make their unit look a lot more broad spectrum than it really is. It has a spike centered around green on every other chart I've ever seen for the same lights. edit: apparently HGL is who makes the penetrator. Or maybe not... I'm finding some conflicting information. Are you sure the units you got were genuine? The penetrator LED tests I've seen all show it doing quite well. edit2: it seems the person running HGL is very aggressive in promoting their own products, with some tests that seem rather dubious in their progression and how they always come out in HGL's favor. Independent testing doesn't seem to confirm their internal results. It may be that the information I've seen/grows I've seen with them weren't 100% honest. Why do you keep referencing metal halides? Metal halide HID lamps are completely different from sulfur plasma lamps. They are not a similar or mixable technology.
Yes they were definitely HGL Penetrators, and you hit the nail on the head regarding HGL. Why not reference M/H Plasma? If not people may assume they are the same and that all Plasma is the same, you referenced Chameleon grow lights, there not using Sulfur Plasma and last time I looked they did have various models combining M/H Plasma with LED or HPS or by itself. Have you checked Luxims site for info, the Luxim 40/41 series is Metal Halide Plasma, check there site, no reference to it being Sulfur plasma, thats why the spectrum is different from sulfur plasma. Dude we've done this before, I feel like Obi-Wan & Vader , I get your point about Sulfur Plasma wasting energy creating greens I only know what I've read about sulfur plasma and I do agree that its not a very efficient lighting source and the hours quoted for lifespan for the bulb are longer than the mechanical parts spinning it lasted which cause the bulb to fail prematurely, again from what I've read more than once about sulfur plasma. As far as LED, I don't think all LED lights are the same, I do think there are some decent performing models out there, GHL, Kessel, TI-Smart lamps seem to perform well. Later tator, S.S.
I'm not sure where you're finding this metal halide plasma. I'm looking on luxim's site here: Light Emitting Plasma by LUXIM Corporation They have a number of different models listed, but none of them mention MH as far as I could tell. Is there maybe some system that uses luxim's plasma lights with metal halide lights in the same fixture? edit: really the biggest problem with LED systems right now is lack of wattage. PAR is great, but PAR doesn't do a number of things that increased light levels do.
I confirmed sometime ago via e-mail with Dawn S. at Luxim that the 40/41 plasma series is not Sulfur plasma and is M/H Plasma, found this PDF, Pg.1/3rd column over near the bottom http://www.luxim.com/pdfs/avmagarticle.pdf Luxim's development of the technology they've released as LIFI is a progression from the sulphur lamp, in that it too uses RF energy to produce the plasma in its source, although in this case at 900MHz, in the vicinity of mobile phones. Luxim's lamp consists of a tic-tac-sized quartz glass envelope filled with an inert gas together with small amounts of mercury and a mix of metal halide salts. The envelope is partially embedded in a puck of ceramic materials that contains the RF emitters, waveguides and feedback sensors to Re: LED- yeah they lack penetration in the typical available wattages 1-3 watts chips, using the TI-smart lamp for an example, IMHO when they start getting it as far as penetration the wattage's will have to increase and that will also increase power usage & heat out put, the bottom line is when they really start to compete with HID lighting so will there power consumption & heat output, just my opinion. They do have the application for the micro or home grower and can grow flowers, just don't expect the claims of the Mfg. and they do create some heat up to 91^ depending on ambient temps, my 4x4x6' box easily peaked & maintained 84^and cycled the exhaust fan with 252w of LED. Sorry if I'm getting to off topic in this thread Later, S.S.
You're confusing terminology with the luxim quote. Metal halide lamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Category:Metal halides - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia They are referring to the latter. Metal halide lamps are a specific technology that isn't related to sulfur plasma. The presence of metal halides in the lamp doesn't make a lamp a metal halide HID lamp. Also LEDs do not lack penetration. The idea is preposterous. They only "lack penetration" because people don't use enough wattage and believe ridiculous claims like 90W (73W driving lights) = 400W HID. LEDs are too expensive; that's really their only fault. Their price will obviously come down in time.
Dude if its important to you contact Luxim for the info. on there light and de-bukt it from the source vs. me re-gurging it 2nd hand for you to challenge & de-bunk. I'm not interested in your google links unless they specifically refer to Luxims 40/41 series Plasma lights, I did scan one quickly, do as I advise & contact them & then de-bukt it from the source and then show me how there hiding this is really Sulfur plasma, I really would like you do to it but I don't think you will, I've had crow served to me many times im my life. The link I gave & quote from the link clearly explains it uses Metal Halide salts/sodium to create the plasma vs. Sulfur salts/sodium, is this where I'm not getting it, M/H salts is just a wide brush stroke term for Sulfur Plasma? no where on there site or in the PDF link refers to Sulfur as part of the light, as I advised before I was also un-clear about this some months back & e-mailed Dawn S. at Luxim and she confirmed Metal Halide Plasma not sulfur plasma. My impresion of you posts is your advising you can't have a plasma light unless its sulfur,yes or no? So M/H can not apply to plasma is this what your conveying? I'm just not clear on what your trying to say about plasma, you advised Luxim has no info on there site regarding if it is Sulfur or M/H, I gave a link to a PDF clearly advising it used M/H salts to create in the Plasma process and your still telling me its wrong or I'm wrong, I'm not seeing it, sorry, if you can educate me on Plasma please do, I welcome it other wise I'm sorry I'm not getting anything out of your posts regarding Plasma. As far as LED vs. penetration, I can only comment on using Hydro Grow L.E.D., 126w units and they gave me more low fluffy popcorn buds than I had ever gotten, attempted to adapt using LST methods and removing more & higher up lower or small branchs, it helped but didn't solve the problem of weak penetration and didn't improve much on the size of the decent to good keepers, what did improve on it was dropping in a few 68w CFL's. I agree crank up the watts for LED like the 150w Kessle or the TI-smart lamps, thats when the penetration will happen and heat & more power consumption, IMHO you will be right back almost the same power consumption with cooling grow spaces as good old HID type lighting sources, as most LED Mfg lights now they are to low powered to get the penetration of the HID type light they compare them to, the Mfg so far have been there own worst enemy, again I do think LED's do work in specific apps. and not all LED lights are created equall, I love mine in my Veg box now. Regards, S.S.
My links demonstrate the difference between metal halide salts and metal halide lamps. Using metal halide salts does not make your lamp a metal halide HID lamp. Regardless of what you want to call or it claim is/isn't in it, the spectrum in the pdf you showed demonstrates that it's not good for growing anyway. Still lots of greens, very little reds. Put 400W of LED up against 400W of HID and 400W of LED wins every time. 126W of LED just doesn't output enough light for good results. In one test a 126W unit like the one you're talking about performed slightly less than a 250W HPS. Neither plant was very impressive.
Uh... no, it doesn't. Not at all. All of HPS' output is in the yellow/orange/red pretty much. It's impossible for a full-spectrum light like that to have more reds, especially when you can see the output visibly drops significantly in the reds. You're being misled by graphs that are scaled differently to fit in the same size space. Then why does HPS beat MH consistently in flowering? Flowering is stimulated far more by red light; the other wavelengths seem close to meaningless. If that wasn't the case, HPS would grow like shit.
i think some people on here have a huge problem with change lol. i know tried and true is the way to go but saying the spectrum is off for plasma's seems a little weak because every graph i have seen (including in hight times this monthcomparing plasma and hps make it look like the only place hps beats plasma is in a tiny little spike in the green to yellow are which is insignificant anyway. all the blue AND red ends seem a lot more intense with the plasma. i have never used one bc of the costs but i will be one of the first to jump in once the price comes down. in ten years i dont think anyone will use anything else