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Star Trek Vs Babylon 5

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Digit, Sep 4, 2003.

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  1. #1 Digit, Sep 4, 2003
    .


    I realise this is probably entirely for my benifit and no one else here will participate on the level i seek... but still... it must be done.

    In Babylon 5 ... they accept scale on a far more realistic level. in many respects. the way that aliens arent all variations of humanity. the way that for those at teh top, they have to deal with far more than is possably achievable... in that, i mean, for example... in episodes where they are in the height of wars, babylon 5 would rush over reports (as background story) for emphisis on the grandness of the problems that present themselves to the characters in the stories. but, in star trek, whilst under similar situations, the story will never throw up anything that might leave to many unanswered questions. star trek has a message to get across, and they'll be damned if they are gonna let anything get in the way and take up vital time from it.

    ok ok, so this isnt really a Vs, more a comparison of why i like both. and the reason, IS the same for both.

    Social comentary.

    in both, there is the between-the-lines sub plots that constantly run and re-run throughout both.

    i've never found a conflict between the two (or none that i can remember anyways) and so.... much of my philosophy is born out of thinking (and to a somewhat lesser extent, meditation) upon the messages that they really want to get out through these shows.

    i suppose the real difference is that babylon 5 is more political (although not exclusively), and strikes home to many of the truths that lay present throughout. whereas, star trek, cuts across so many more barriers than just the political. forever throwing up more ethical, moral and philisophical dilemas. despite it being sooooo human, and short sighted, i love star trek still. perhaps thats why i like bab5 so much in comparrison, it corrects that which stares me in the face so glaringly as "wrong" about star trek.

    the prime directive of "star trek" the show, is that of acceptance, tollerance, diversity, variety, etc.
    it was born out of a time of social change, of acceptance (thankyou left wing liberals such as Gene Rodenberry) of those of different cultures, of those of different appearance (skin colour for example). Thanks to star trek, so much has been achieved. Its influence is almost as possitive and far reaching as that of the hippie revolution. not only of social acceptance (although this is perhaps a matter for the eternal debate concerning society and art) but even as far reaching as technology..... for example... the NASA space shuttle "entiprise"... hypo spray... warp theory... teleporter technology research and advances... the list goes on and on. Star trek makes those leaps of logic that can be now characterised as so... "human".

    ok ok... so Star Trek has 30 years on babylon 5.... maybe i should give more credit to the new boy.

    but right now... all i can think of are the great philosphical quotes, the lack of over humanitisation of everything to make it more "accessable" at the producer's request.
    (side note - dont you just hate producers who's only care is the popularity or profitability of that which they produce? -retorical question btw-)

    babylon 5 with races such as the Membari and the development of G'kar of Narn throughout the series, gives i believe a greater degree in which we can percieve ourselves develope, beyond that which star trek provides with its "look at the federation,, arent humans so perfet?" type arrogance that only seeks to defeat the whole purpose of realising that you can be better than you are.


    or, so i see it anyways. thnx for listening.

    as you may or may not be able to tell..... i get much of my philosophy from the teachings of said shows.
    who ever said that there no good would come from enforced morals through education. lol.

    hahahahahaha...... and people say i'm anti american. ... well... patriots do anyways. but what do they know. they probably dont watch star trek with as keen an eye as i.


    hope you enjoyed reading me waffle and rant on aimlessly about star trek and bab5. :D
     
  2. #2 KraziHare, Sep 4, 2003
    well, for someone that was always at least a bit of a trek geek I gotta say that babylon 5 was a breath of fresh air.

    the first thing I noticed was the relative realism compared to the strangely homogonistic body types and ideologies in star trek

    On the other hand, I found it difficult to follow some times because I'd miss an episode or something, trek doesn't have that problem most of the time.

    Then there are the constant rehashings of star trek episodes, for example the countless times they're had to fight off evil holograms that came to life somehow and took over the ship

    and the general lack of romulans in the newer series

    Babylon five had the better elements of star trek but it still felt lacking, the plot wasn't as good sometimes and the narns (that was their name right?) were just flat out annoying to me, but not as much as the saucer shaped hair guys who used to keep the narns as a slave race or something

    you get my point? it may have had more variety but they still threw in petty soap opera like plots that didn't flow with the rest of the series

    those shadow aliens were cool though

    over all Star Trek will always be the best, Babylon five is a definite second though

    </dork>
     
  3. #3 SiN-Drome, Sep 4, 2003
    ummm staR tr3k is better
     
  4. #4 Gri77oN, Sep 4, 2003
    digit, dig the post.



    aright.. where shal I start.

    first a reaction startrek IS NOT short sighted.


    +++

    as to bab5 being kinda fresh air for long time trek geek, so TRUE !!


    +++

    I luv both universe.

    I would say that startrek deals too much stuff, whih makes it inconstitent; where as bab5 deals on decisions, human decisions.

    "what do you want?"

    I want harmony.



    (
    may i just add, if i had to choose, i'd choose startrek... the babes in space suit...
    guys, comon don't deny it.
    )
     
  5. #5 sidious, Sep 4, 2003
    where's the poll digit, pollmaster?..........star trek is better.......never could get into bab 5.......big black spider like things.......din't seem original enough.........allways the same old enemy...........if i missed an episode of bab 5 i felt lost................with star trek you could miss any amount and still watch as each one was individual as well, but also linked............if you's know what i mean...........?.............Peace out................Sid
     
  6. #6 Gri77oN, Sep 4, 2003
    true.

    bab5 is a saga, miss one episode, and you are lost (especially if there was a flashback during that episode)

    the enemie is not the black spider, that's the thing, it's the caracters themselves.

    (well .. I only got the first and 2nd seaason yet.. pliz not too much spoil)

    but bab5 did get the hugo price twice, that must mean the story's good.
     
  7. #7 critter, Sep 4, 2003
    We have all the originals on tape and all the movies .plus most pichard and janeway series.Janeway is my farovite.Never got into bab 5.
     
  8. #8 :::===={XX}, Sep 5, 2003
    I never really liked star treak episodes too boring for me but the movies were great. I guess I was too young to appreciate it.

    and bab5 was a joke.

    Star gate is my fav I like how is set like a military style show rather than just drifting through space.
     
  9. #9 InferiorWang, Sep 5, 2003
    I never got into babylon 5. I don't know what it is, but even tho I was a major sci fi fanatic for a while, it never appealed to me. I did (and still do) like Star Trek. I understand how people don't like the same body type, but there's actually a reason for that explored in some of the episodes. I'm kinda disappointed that they aren't making any more real Star Treks, because Enterprise just isn't the same thing. It's easier to take for granted some of the technologies that are behind what they should be in the future when they aren't exploring them. Like the primitive communicators from TOS and our cell phones are already so much better. One thing I did always like about the Star Treks was the scientific basis and feasibility of many of the ideas. There were some smart people writing that stuff and scientists are slowly catching up to the ideas of some of the things on there. Even teleporters are feasible once they included the "Heisenberg compensator" which takes care of one of the main problems with teleportation at the moment known as the Heseinberg uncertainty princable. I'm dead tired so I can't think enough to talk anymore about this right now.
     
  10. #10 Gri77oN, Sep 5, 2003
    you're geek, right?
     
  11. #11 ubik, Sep 5, 2003
    Babylon 5 beats star treck 10-0 anytime, it's great and the storyline is logigal and in a huge scale, and they wrote all the episodes before filming any so it isn't just random episodes but an continuing plot, yes there were some episodes that had nothing to do with anything.
     
  12. #12 Madmike420, Sep 5, 2003
    Fuck em both. STAR WARS rulez!
     
  13. #13 KraziHare, Sep 5, 2003

    But I thought the heisenberg compentsator had to do with warp speed and how it would normally rip your body apart from displacement of matter. Not to mention that no one's come up with a feasable theory as to how the compensator might work, they've only touched on how warp speed might work.

    Also I do remember that one episode of TNG where the klingons, romulans and federation are fighting over this ancient capsule that contains the origins of all species, so they did at least try to explain the whole homogony issue
     
  14. #14 Digit, Sep 5, 2003
    and not to mention that Voyager tried to further compensate for the excessive humanoidyness by having species 8479 (or whatever.:p) jumping around all tri-ped half humanoid like.


    but still....

    usually if its intelligent in star trek it resembles us. how arogant! its been getting worse too. ok,,, so maybe there's better attempts at disguising the human ness of the actors... but why should we even have human actors playing the rolls of aliens.... doing so completely screws over the make-up & special effects department and ties their hands. havn't they heard of treating your audience with respect and like their actually inteligent beings? .... Babylon5 has. ;)
    example? two words...

    Vorlons.

    Shadows.


    ok ok... i could go on more...

    ... and was about to... but the others are usually too damn hard for a dislexic foo' like me to spell. ;D
     
  15. #15 InferiorWang, Sep 5, 2003
    The reason we all look alike in Star Trek was there was an ancient race of beings (whose name I forget) who traipsed around the galaxy spreading parts of their dna and stuff whic allowed humanoid beings to evolve with the same basic dna beginnings and then adjust a little to their own worlds. That's also the reason why different species can have children together. Also, when certain parts of each species dna was combined a certain way there was some kind of message or something. I need to figure out what episode that was and download it.

    And was the heisenberg compensator for warp? I could have swore it was for the transporter. I haven't seen a whole lot of trek since voyager went off the air, so I'm forgetting things.


    Me? or digit? Cuz I think the answer for both of us (and several others here) would be a resounding YES.
     
  16. #16 KraziHare, Sep 5, 2003
    Actually I read this book called 'the physics of star trek' that explained how the compensator worked. As I recall under normal circumstances if one were to travel even at the speed of light (much less beyond that) your body wouldn't be able to take the force of the displacement. Some parts of you would move faster than others because of the differences in mass and the varying ways in which they would move.

    It wouldn't be pleasant.
     
  17. #17 Zylark, Sep 8, 2003
    for my taste, b5 is the best. never got into star trek. never really liked it, it's too, well, utopian. the characters don't resemble humans as i know them at all. they're more cardboard cutouts. and this goes for everything. the show is just too clean. that's what got me into star wars, the ships are dirty, the people are dirty, or at least got a dark side, and the plot is a tale as much of human fallability as of heroism.

    the same with b5. it shows a realistic future for mankind, not a utopian one. we are still as cunning and coniving as ever, but are now a part of a galactic society, with even more cunning and coniving species doing the royal fuck-around. it's great. and the underlying plot with it's own mythology is great.

    ...and the special effects were made in lightwave :D
     
  18. #18 InferiorWang, Sep 8, 2003
    I liked Star Wars first and hated Star Trek, but later grew into Star Trek and got tired of Star Wars.
     
  19. #19 Digit, Sep 9, 2003
    looks like this is turning out to be a star wars Vs Star Trek thing

    Sta'Wa's is a completely different kettle of fish entirely.
    its just the age old epic battle of good versus evil, played out old style, but with all that "futur"istic funky stuff we expect of our sci fi these days.

    the argument of Trek and Wars is akin to apples and oranges.

    let it rest i say. both are great. lets leave it at that.
     
  20. #20 InferiorWang, Sep 9, 2003
    I don't have anything against the Wars, I just got tired of it after being a hardcore fan for a while. There's still nothing wrong with it IMO.
     
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