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Spontaneous Order

Discussion in 'Politics' started by aaronman, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. Fewer rules make for better behavior (in traffic).

    I've seen this in Africa where the drivers are all courteous because it is in their own self interest for flowing traffic and a system of etiquette, there is no sense of entitlement or rage. It might be a stretch to compare traffic with society, but we are all in this together.

    Humans when thrown into the mix together form order. Who's to say when we are ready to live without a coercive state guiding and regulating our every move? Maybe it's time?

  2. Where does culture fit in?

    In India there are very few rules or regulations when it comes to driving (other then use the horn). It works to a degree, but it is in no way safe. There are a lot of accidents, and people settle things in their own way.

    They also don't have lots of super fast sports cars and giant SUVs on the streets (How about in Africa? Did you see a lot of expensive sports cars there?)

    How was the air quality on the streets in Africa? It was pretty bad in India, but the worst I've experienced was in Quito, Ecuador (which is polluted for a number of reasons)

    Anyway....American's have big, fast cars, lots of guns, and a pretty big sense of entitlement when it comes to the roads. The Dutch, on the other hand, have been used to sharing their roads with bicyclists for years, and they are known to be a tolerant society.

    The Spontaneous Order of our highways would be:


    As a scooter driver, I'm not sure if I like that order. :p
  3. I dunno traffic statistics of India, or countries in Africa, but I'd be interested to see if our laws and safety standards give us a leg up.

    The air pollution in Kampala was pretty bad, I coughed up black stuff after 2 weeks, but those countries have that right, they are developing. Eventually they will be able to afford cleaner technology and enjoy better air quality.

    I went to school in The People's Republic of Boulder, which is located in America, and bicycles and pedestrians ruled the road. I hear it's the same elsewhere. America isn't all rednecks and muscle cars.

    Of course culture is relevant, but so is the state. We are mandated to have auto insurance and forced to obey ridiculous speed limits (in some places), and this certainly affects car culture in America.

    Have you ever gotten a ticket for rolling a stop sign in the middle of the night? :mad:
  4. Actually, I don't think it's that much of a stretch at all to make the connection to society. I mean what is traffic but a society operating vehicles? It actually is a great example because it shows how a society can function even better, with less rules, while operating dangerous mechanical machinery. ;)
  5. Who thought humans could be responsible on their own. :p
  6. I like the idea of less traffic laws, but I also think that we should implement stricter driving tests.
  7. Will less traffic laws make the idiot going 30 mph faster than everyone else and changing two plus lanes at a time drive more carefully? Probably not, unless we can legally kill him for being an idiot driver. That could be therapeutic.
  8. Is he really an idiot driver if he doesn't hit anyone?
  9. Maybe not an idiot driver, but an idiot.
  10. How is he an idiot? If he can drive 30 over and change two lanes at once safely then why shouldn't he be allowed?
  11. Some people overestimate their abilities behind the wheel. Maybe one time he/she slips up and kills someone and goes to prison for life. He/she's an idiot. If said idiot goes a whole lifetime speeding 30 mph faster than everyone else and weaving in and out of traffic on a crowded freeway, then OK, said idiot is also a good driver.
  12. I think the biggest problem in the world, after hunger, is not keeping right except to pass. If we can somehow solve that problem, this proverbial idiot is fine, because it's the slow, hesitant drivers that pose a real risk.

    But Italy raised their national speed limit to 80mph a couple years ago and it has reduced accidents. hmm
  13. I think most people overestimate their abilities behind the wheel, but that doesn't mean that the guy going faster than everyone is. I also don't think the idiot would be going 30 over everyone else's speed all the time. I know some highways around me where, if traffic permits, I can drive 30 over safely.
  14. Yea, I have no problem with people driving fast as long as they're competent. I guess I've just been in the passenger seat with a few too many drivers that were indeed idiots. I have (I mean had) the broken bones to prove it.

    Which begs the question, do we have a right to be safe on our roadways? (I'm just being an idiot now). :smoke:
  15. Wasn't that the point of the study though? That driving in with lots of regulations, laws, and restrictions actually results in more reckless driving. I'm sure your experience of bad drivers has been within this frame of reference, rather than the theoretical one of little to no rules.
  16. They don't have rules in these places because nobody would obey them...

    But I do agree...less rules is good...I don't obey most of them anyway...

    And should be able to a shoot shitty drivers car. After 10 cars in a month...they'll get the hint!
  17. Yea, I know what you mean. One of my friends during our junior year of high school, 2 weeks after he got his license, was racing some kids on a back road and ended up crashing his car into a huge tree trunk at 60 mph. He died on impact. :(

    A lot of people are bad drivers and nearly everyone thinks they're a good driver.
  18. That's the beauty of being high while you drive. You're actually more aware of how bad you drive, get paranoid about it, and drive far more cautiously than you do while sober even. :D
  19. QFT. If my buddy had smoked a j before driving that night, he'd probably still be alive today.
  20. They don't. I'm all for abandoning the traffic laws. I'd love to not worry about being pulled over/arrested. I just don't think it would create Spontaneous Order on the roadways. Granted I live in South Georgia where I believe the worst drivers in the world live.

    But another question. Without traffic laws, how do you determine fault when an accident has occurred? Can I just ride up the interstate ramming people from behind? If so, I'd get face-to-the-toilet drunk and make a sport of it.

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