Something that has bothered me about the Christian god

I think the whole idea of a Zombie who is the son of God, but is actually God himself died for the sins of the everyone because a woman and man in paradise were told by a fucking snake to eat a magic fruit from a magic tree to gain knowledge. That could be your tip off that its complete bull shit. Or the fact that god punishes an imperfect race that he created imperfect. Or the fact that Christianity was invented before scientific analysis of the world was very common, so people found a very easy way to explain natural phenomenon, God. Or it could be that Christianity was invented before the average person had an education, so it would be extremely easy to brain wash people back then also.

 

^^^this and a whole lot more about how it's aweful and not true.

 

major hole in your story there ace

christians believe that by faith in jesus christ, you are saved. in catholicism, salvation is earned through good works, sacraments, etc.

"But nothing exists, the cause of whose existence is not supplied by God. Nothing then is hated by God, nor yet by the Word. For both are one.. and that is God." Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor 1.8.

 

It seems insane, but to a Christian it makes sense.

God required animal sacrifices of the Jews as propitiation for sin, and according to Christianity these sacrifices were a type and shadow of the ultimate sacrifice to come, Jesus Christ. The Bible is full of such symbolism- baptism as a shadow of death from sin (being dunked under water) and emerging (resurrecting) a new person. Jesus was killed, his body placed in a tomb for 3 days, and then was resurrected.

God says, throughout the Bible, that the punishment for sin is death. In order to ensure the salvation of all his children, and trump the death that Adam and Eve brought into the world (they were immortal until they ate of the tree of knowledge) he required a final sacrifice. To traditional Christians, God condescends in the form of the man Jesus Christ, lives a sinless life (and as an effect of this would have never died, had he not been put to death) and then is condemned to death by Pontius Pilate. His death was not a result of his sinful nature, but the result of everybody else's sinful nature. To a Christian, the idea that God would come down among man, and then have himself slain to redeem them all according to the law which he set forth from Old Testament times is a very real, transformative act of love.

The Bible is clear that God acts within the laws he has constructed. This was just how it had to be, according to Christianity. That ultimate act of unconditional love is what makes it so sacred to them. It's not a matter of "why couldn't God have just waved his hand and saved all his children," it's a matter of "God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, that whosoever shall believe in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

Here, this makes more sense...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRIypcaIX4]YouTube - Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter (Trailer)[/ame]

 

You really should study up on Religion before making a thread. You take it all the wrong way to twist it around. I suppose you really think that if you drink his blood your saved? Come on if your going to bring up Religion at least bring up facts and not just how you interpret it.

 

Early Christianity (pre-Nicene council) was pretty universalistic. The idea was that Jesus Christ died once for ALL men. All men were saved because of his death, save the most evil, vile people on earth.

As Catholicism began to take hold and became centralized, the belief in universalism died out. There are very few Christians who are universalist today...but it was a mark of the early church. Most of the doctrines that really completed this whole sacrificial atonement idea have been stamped out. You can read most of them in the works of the early church fathers.

Sacrifices were necessary because spilled blood is, according to the Abrahamic traditions, the way to gain forgiveness of sin. Animal sacrifice provided temporary forgiveness of sin. The sacrifice of the Christian savior provided permanent, everlasting forgiveness of sin.

It's not circular at all, if you actually take the time to read the Bible. I'm not even a Christian and I understand the logic behind it. It is only those who have never read the Bible that complain of its lack of clarity.

You have to understand the basics before you can understand the doctrine of atonement.

 

Jesus was just another blood sacrifice.

All the really good religions make the blood flow even just a little bit now and again. The Aztecs made a regular business of it. The ancient Jews and related henotheists in the Levant sacrificed animals to their Gods. In fact, Jehovah made a point of preferring Abel, the pastoralist making animal sacrifices to God to Cain, the agriculturalist making pussy sacrifices like wheat and shit. The Greeks sacrificed animals to the gods, too, and look at all the crazy cool stories about their gods they wrote.

If something isn't dying because of the way you worship the Creator of Life, you ain't doing it right.

 

In the words of Lester Burnham, you are my new personal hero.

Reason? BOOOO!
"Reason"? Yiiiiiippeeee!

 

You can buy Bibles that are in plain, updated English. If you're reading the King James Version I suggest you stop...the language isn't clear, and mistranslations and blatant insertion of Jesus Christ into the Old Testament abound. Likewise, you shouldn't read the NIV if you're looking to read a translation that it is even remotely good.

God calls for blood sacrifice because the belief during that time period was that warm blood provided life. Blood is warm in a living person, and cold in a dead person, so they made the connection that warm blood provides life. You have to look at the Atonement of Jesus Christ as a doctrine of substitution. The payment for sin, according to God, is death, both physical, and spiritual. After Adam and Eve fell from immortality physical death entered the world. God instituted a practice whereby man could be saved from spiritual death, and that was by a substitution of the warm blood of an animal.

This substitution, in obedience, was enough for the Israelites to gain atonement. The Old Testament is a story of Israel's rise to favor with God, then their fall, then their rise again, and so on. As the story goes, God got tired of looking upon his people who continued to harden their hearts, and condescended - became man - to once and for all provide a sacrifice that would bring salvation to the children of men. Christ's substitutionary atonement- the shedding of his blood as a willing act was necessary, according to the New Testament, to gain salvation for ALL people. Up until that point it had only been the Israelites who were making sacrifices for propitiation of sin. God gave one sacrifice, his son, so that the rest of the world would not have to submit to the law of sacrifice as it was found in the Old Testament. God kept his favor with the Israelites, but expanded it to include all people.

To understand all of this, it also helps to understand how Judaism grew out of the prevailing Mesopotamian religions of the day. Blood was a sacred symbol...it only makes sense that that symbolism would remain as monotheism developed.

 

This is the biggest load of horseshit that I've ever heard that so many christians believe. Adam and Eve WERE NOT FUCKING IMMORTAL. If they were immortal, there wouldn't be a tree of life in eden, the tree of life is the tree of immortality. They never ate from that fucking tree, and who the hell would want to be immortal with no free thought, being completely mindless had they never gained knowledge? I damn sure wouldn't, cuz your not living without free thought, your a slave.

Even in the origional story of Eden Adamu and Ti'amat are never immortal, Enlil becomes angry that Enki has given humans so much of the gods essence in order for them to be able to reproduce, and with that essence we gained intelligence. Ningishziddha even says to Enlil in an attempt to reason with him "My lord Enlil, knowing (tree of knowledge) for procreation they were given, the branch of Long Living to their essence tree was not"

They're not talking about actual trees, they're talking about DNA, the double helix can be seen in ancient times they knew about it, and tree's refer to branches of DNA. The Sumerians even know about all the planets, including Neptune and Pluto, we didn't know about Pluto until the 1930's, they had beings (the gods) teach them about these things, and helped them to establish civilization.

It really amazes me that people will believe a book that was written 1500 years ago that has so many similarities to pagan stories, yet they think that ancient peoples were ignorant. God has supposedly been with man since the beginning of time, so why did it take until 2000 years ago for people to know who he was? The ones who would know about the real god would be the ones who existed much longer ago when humanity had started, and they even say that the gods inhabited the earth and taught them everything. It's just mind boggling the herd mentality that people have to believe such garbage when the truth about religion is out there to discover now with the vast wealth of information available through the internet.

Please please please, show me a verse from the bible that says Adam and Eve were immortal until they ate the fruit. I will suck your dick if you can quote a verse that says that, because there isn't one.

People make up their own xtianity, it's retarded. You have a fucking book that is the exact guideline for being a christian, yet nobody seems to agree on christianity, hence the hundreds of different sects that all believe different bullshit, like the dumb fucks who believe in the rapture,which is also nowhere to be found in the bible.

You can't just make shit up about the bible and call it the word of god, because the fact is that yhwh doesn't talk to anyone being as he's a fictional entity. Before the bible, Jews were polytheists, so what happened to all of those gods all of a sudden? Revenge happened, the Rabbi's came up with an elaborate plan to get back at the Gentiles for years of oppression and slavery, so they made up a lie based on truth, enforced it by deadly force, proclaimed themselves as the chosen people of that god (god loves everyone equally huh? He picks favorites plenty of times in the bible), and told the world God needs money, 10% of everything you make. It's quite the get rich (and powerful) quick scheme.

 

If you lack faith and you don't accept the covering of your sins by Jesus then you don't get eternal life with Jesus.

If you are born in to Lucifer you become a child of perdition and you go to hell and then the lake of fire.

If you don't or could not accept the covering of your sins by Jesus you wont get eternal life but if you don't get born in to Lucifer then you may be given to according to your works at the last resurrection.

The lake of fire that is commonly thought of as hell is for Satan and his minions.



\tAnd I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

\tAnd the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 20:12-13

 

You're right, there is no passage in the Bible, in its current form, that state that Adam and Eve were immortal before the fall.

However, there are many apocryphal texts that state as much. The Testament of Adam is a good place to begin looking.

And just like I told you in that PM I sent you last night, your earlier antisemitic diatribe, as well as what I bolded above, is not supported by the historical record. I suggest you do some studying on who YHWH was in the Sumerian pantheon, and his connection with El, before monotheism took hold. Both are logical outgrowths of the religion prominent in Mesopotamia at the time, not some nefarious plan by Rabbis to "get back at the gentiles."

Pull your head out of your antisemitic ass.

 

Why is it that people may openly slander certain beliefs with their false information , but as soon as Jews are mentioned in a negative light with hardly false information - it's instantly anti-semetism ?
My researched and unbiased view on this - Yaweh was not an original existing god , but rather created by mashing all different kinds of ancient Sumerian Gods together to form this being which was made to look alot more superior than to any of the others. Enki , was then made out to look like the ultimate evil being in all of this. Why though , was Enki falsely depicted in such an evil light in the Bible ? What does he have that needed to be covered up so much ? Why Yaweh was created , seems pretty obvious - to ensure control over the masses. With the Bible being metaphorical , the Tree of Life was what Enki gave to humans - knowledge. Why is it that this god yaweh makes knowledge look so evil ? Is knowledge not everything ? Fear is caused because of the lack of knowledge on the individual's behalf. Kids of today get Christianity drilled into their head before they can even hardly speak properly - let alone think for themselves. They FEAR hell. Why is it that ignorance in today's society reigns supreme over knowledge ?
Edit: I was aware of the thread portraying the acts of Jews , and was mainly refering to that.

 

okay I read the first pate and all of the long posts, I'm by no means a Christian and by no means am I a theologest (expert) but I do go to a catholic school.

I'll start of by saying this, who ever told you God is a god of justice is a veary fundemental. Now if you go to any modern Christian relgion class, the first thing that is teacher is that God is a forgiving god. In Christianity he loves us and that's that he want to help you out and give you a "go to heaven free" card but YOU yourself have to reachout to God. That what I was taught.

No on the deal with sin and the whole bathism thing. Bathism is their for the basic reason to wash away "Orginal Sin" that we all are born with because were human. (orginal sin is what Adam and eve did) I have thought to myself and this is how I see it: we are born with the burden of Adam and eve's choice, now really I sound dumb rate now but it's hard to put my thought on paper like this.

As for the bible, what most people DO JOT KNOW is that the gospels (matthew, mark, luke, and jhon) were chosen to be in the bible because their almos the same. Now their are 55 other gospels that were discovers around 1945, and their called the "nostic" gospels. If you read some of these gospels they sound ALOT like buddism teachings and some of Socrates' 4 princapals. "If you know yourself, than you will be know"-gospel of Thomas is my favorite example, because if you know philosophy you know Socrates' princapals, this quote sounds like his 4th.

Hoped this helped a little, by no means am I an expert in this and I do not see myself as a Christian.

 

I called him an antisemite according to another post he has made on this board, and some comments he has made in other threads. That comment wasn't an outgrowth of his post in this thread, so cool your jets.

Everything else you said pretty much matches up with the prevailing belief throughout Mesopotamia during that time period. But again, you might want to look at who YHWH is. He is the Hebrew counterpart of another Sumerian god. I'll leave the research up to you.

It's no secret that as lands were conquered, and peoples mixed, that whatever people came out victorious tended to take the old pantheon of gods and assimilate them into their current pantheon. This is exactly what Mesopotamia did- see the chronicles of Marduk for that information. This is exactly what polytheistic Israel did. YHWH absorbed the functions of El, and became the god of Israel. This is also exactly why the Greek gods can be mapped so perfectly into the Roman pantheon.

Such is history. Gods are assimilated; rarely were they ever just completely dropped from the historical record. When monotheism began to take hold (which was an outgrowth of Marduk's absorption of other god's functions and statures) YHWH began to take the role of all those other gods. They weren't erased...they simply just became part of YHWH.