I was raised Roman Catholic. I made my confirmation. But I never bought into it. I really admire Buddists... the first part of Buddhism is relesaing all preconcieved notions and stereotypes, and seeing ('seeing') everything as it is. That tree is a tree. That skinny long haired white kid is just that... you have to train yourself to not even think of the possibility that the long haired skinny white kid is a hippy or stoner or dopehead. If I had a gun to my head, and was forced to choose a religion or title, I would get shot. Closest would be agnostic, because of my love of science and cause and effect. I need tangible proof to believe things. I've always jammed to that different drum beat, and I have beliefs that cross borders. I don't plan on posting on this thread again after this, I just want to rant a bit, and see what others think..... First off. Jesus was a man. He was born in the summer. Sweating blood is a well known thing in medicine.... under extreme stress (say, carrying hundreds of pounds of wood to a site where you are to be crucified upon said wood) the capillaries in the forehead can burst, releasing blood into the sweat glands. In my opinion, the Bible was the best story ever written. It is BASED on true events, interpreted by men who did not witness said events. Even Joesephus has been proven to be a less thn totally credible source of history at the time of Christ. One single supernova blast created everything we can see... from things directly in front of you, to furthest clump of frozen raw-materials in the Kuiper Belt. The star that went supernova, that gave us our raw materials, came from another larger eccrection scenario.... and so on until the Big Bang. You, and I, are related. Your computer screen, and I, are related. Comet Hale-Bopp, and I, are related. My Street sign, and your dog's claws, are related. The nitrogen gas plumes of Nuptune's Moon, Triton, and the shit stuck between your teeth..... are related. Everything is balanced. Karma is VERY real, and in all sizes. My father died on June 19th, 2008. That same day, I saw a species of bird new to my life list (a list of birds a single bird hs seen/positively IDed in his/her life). My father's essence, or soul if your will, continues in the male Rose-breasted Grosbeak I saw that same day... no more than 4 hours after they coronor took him. The Grosbeak nested and raised 3 youg that year, returned last spring and raised 4. I burried my fathers ashes, and his raw materials will combine in the way they need to combine to create. Just create. Create plant food, or create minerls, or create a pile of atoms that will one day blow to shit when OUR sun goes supernova..... and the whole process starts over again. -MoJo-
So you disregard the books written by man about Jesus but instead went with the books written by man that says a big explosion made everything, despite them not stating how the explosion occured. Interesting. You don't have to judge, even the words of christ say not to judge. You don't really need buddhism for that. Love thy neighbor.
Just saw this... I never said I disregard books written about Jesus. Not once. I have read the Bible. Have you? I have read parts of the Koran. Have you? I don't judge. I am certainly in no position to judge. No one is. I stated in the begining my reasons for believing in science, not god. I need tangible proof. Believing doesn't do it for me. I do not, at all, deny the huge amount of good having faith does for other people. it just isn't for me. And, I said I cross the borders. Never said I needed Buddhism.... I said I admired them. Read carefully, buddy. I will now smoke a bowl, and hope you are smoking too, and bid you adieu. -MoJo-
Jesus' divinity is not reliant on sweating blood being a divine interaction. Even some of the Christians I have talked to know it is an actual medical problem, and Jesus was going through enough stress for it matter. FYI, it says he was sweat blood not when he was carrying the cross, but when he was praying RIGHT before they came to take him away. Also, you have to remember that religion (for lack of a better word) and science, are two HIGHLY different things. Covering very different subjects, you cannot use one to disprove the other. I believe if science states the big bang happened, (until met with a better theory) that is how God did it. Just posting my beliefs and commenting on yours. Buddhism is a great way to master and learn how to control the self, they have much wisdom, I just tend to disagree on the overall spiritual message. I am glad that you have found a way that works for your life. I wish you luck on your journey, and pray that god guides you.
I appreciate your kind words and opinions. I was under the impression that Jesus was sweating blood while carrying the cross. Thank you for correcting me. I see what you are saying... using one to disprove the other. Good point. My personal needs and believes force me to have some kind of proof of something. If I ws beamed to... wherever... and had a convo with God, I would drop to me knees and repent right then and there. On the other hand, if I could be beamed to the minutes BEFORE the Big Bang, I'd dismiss all religion. I guess that makes me just agnostic. I like to think that everything has a cause and effect. I just don't have it in me to 'just believe'. Perhaps I am jaded in that regard, having experienced the hardships of life at an early age. Who knows. Hopefully, before all humans leave this planet, someone will!! -MoJo-
FYI, Hunter S birthed me, and I LOVE that quote you have. I have never seen it before and it spoke to me like the patron saint of rage for the voiceless outcast should. Proof denies faith. Without faith, what is the point.
So what makes you so "certain" the book you read is somehow more valid than say, The Tanakh (torah), Quran, Bhagavad gita, or Tipitaka? Not to mention many others... Why are you choosing one book vs another, vs another..etc? I assume you probably haven't studied the other religions or attempted to have some sort of spiritual experience encapsulated around the belief system they hold, yet, without doing so, you're just assuming you have the right one nailed down so to speak, and sorry for the pun. This would be synonymous with a male growing up and asking the first girl he saw to marry him believing she's got to be the right one, because its the first one they experienced, right? She's got to be "it" for him.. Well without experiencing all the offerings, you're making a blind-folded decision. To each their own though
You'd think someone acting so 'enlightened' wouldn't make blind assumptions. As for me, I have looked into, and studied other faiths and beliefs. These three are my favorite... (the middle one is The Voyage of The Beagle by Darwin).
I don't think Philan was directing that towards you. Most of us jump the gun from time to time though. The notion of God being separate is sort of interesting. Science can tell you that all division is approximate...
Acting so enlightened - What does that mean? What do you think enlightened people act like? I'm a human being, I don't have anything you do not have. I quoted Mairuzu's post so my response was directed to him. And I thought I was semi clear in saying I was in fact assuming. That loaded assumption obviously leaves me open for them to say "Actually, I have given them a shot philan and this is why it didn't work for me: blah blah, or I thought it was stupid, or these are the practices that I just did not want to do...or I'm just not interested..etc." I was after the why - Just this: You responded, but not to what I was inquiring about.
don't feel obligated to join a religion, all of them are very similar in many ways, despite the constant debates The spiritual side of life is a definite highlight, although joining a religion is not necessary to explore it, anything that offers you 'the answers' should be approached with caution If you are thinking about exploring religions, go with the one that makes most sense. I've been studying them all for years, and can tell you many of them come from the same source, so they are all one in the same for example, christianity is considered a western philosophy, but its origins are from the middle east (ironic isn't it) up to you man, if you want to talk about buddhism or whatever pm me (I don't put the names of religions in capitals because they are all equals)
I apologize, Philan. Iwas on a rant that day and didn't pay enough attention when I should have. It drives me nuts when people do that on my threads. Again, I aplologize form mis-inderstanding and taking offense to it. But stil... I sugest those books!!! I believe I ment 'enlightened' in a (jerK) dick way. I thought you were directing that to me, and I felt someone who was telling abother what one should read, shouldn't assume the person who are talking about doesn't do A and B. Happy Easter to those who care! (not I said the brown cow) -MoJo-
No apologies necessary I wasn't meaning to come across as putting any of those books down or negating their value if it seemed like I was. Just posing a question as to why & where you draw value...and whats even assigning value to the value within you -- and why are you even doing that to begin with? More of an introspective question. Definitely not trying to be a jerk though Sorry for the confusion
Well I find it very interesting that Christianity is so very tied to Judaism. So I suppose it could be said the new testament, is simply an extension and fulfillment of the Tanakh. Not that that address' validity, just as to intracate connections between two holy books. One about the person fulfilling the prophecies of the first, and the love affair he started. Known then as The Way, and now as Christianity.
Those who need physical proof of everything, will never in this life see the Light of God that cannot be sensed with your physical senses, the same way you cannot see infrared light because it's wavelengths go beyond what your senses can pick up, or how you will not see air, because the vibrations at room temperature are also at a rate that your sense of sight cannot pickup. It is very possible to produce technology that would enable us to sense the astral. The astral exists at a similar vibration that air does, you cant see it and you can walk right through it, but the vibration of the astral plane cannot be sensed by human means. There is also a mental and spiritual plane, the astral is merely a higher vibration of the physical world. Matter is the most insignificant thing in this Universe. The Spirit that is the Mind, that is in all humans and is what makes us in God's image, is clouded by the soul and body. The soul makes up your personality, desires, appetites, etc. Just remember, you don't see with your eyes, you see through them. Your brain doesn't produce thoughts, it is the middle man from the Mind to the Mental and, when expressed, the Body. It's a type of Matrix. The Spirit/Mind is connected to the soul/mental, and the soul/mental is connected to the body. Physicists can't figure out why the big bang occured, because they look for strictly physical clues. I know how it banged, and this entire universe has and will always existed, though it hasn't always existed in the form of physical matter, and it will someday cease to be corporeal as well. There is nothing in this universe that cannot be known, but the knowledge is hidden in the last place anyone would think to look.t
How can 'matter be the most insignificant thing in the universe' as opposed to 'Spirit' if you say it is possible to pick up 'Spirit' through machinery as we detect infra red? You realise air and infra red consist of matter, right? Respectively, gaseous atomic particles and photons. If this is true and we can detect it, then it's 'matter', just like anything else in the universe - nothing extraordinary or mystical about that, provided we can pick it up and scientifically observe it as you say we can. As for the OP, I sympathise with your words man. It puts it in perspective when you say that we're all related to comets, dust and essentially EVERYTHING - all of our self importance is reduced drastically when we realise we're all just like everything else, matter helplessly and eternally interacting with other matter as according to the laws of physics. Kinda goes with what you say about Buddhism too - looking at it like is kind of like breaking down the ultimate mental 'illusion' barrier. Why, that skinny long haired white kid isn't just a skinny long haired white kid... 'he' is a cluster of atoms, same as that rock over there, or that tree. Food for thought
The Spirit is not the astral. Perhaps I made a typing error, but I know that I stated the astral is on the same plane of energy that matter consists of. You will never detect the Spirit with any kind of technology, detecting the astral however is possible. The soul also consists of the same energy that matter consists of, however, the soul and Spirit differ, they are not the same as many falsely believe.
That was a very very interesting and inspiring post. I'm not going to read this entire thread right now because I don't have the time on my hands, but you points really spoke to me. I remember when I first heard about the fact that atoms cannot be created or destroyed. Then I remember applying it to the bible, and got kind of scared because I had been taught (mind you this is when I was like 7-13 probably) from Christianity that we are eternal and we have endless happiness when we die. The prospect that NOTHING could be a possibility after death frightens me. And I'm not sure that there is nothing after death but It just CANNOT be as the bible tells it.