Socialism; I Dont Get It.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Sovereign Psyche, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Do socialists want a society where people can just walk into "their" house and squat if they wish, not having to ask to borrow "their" goods, etc?  If not, what makes them think they can walk into someone's business and take it over?
    What if everytime you got a new iPad, someone took it from you?  With all your acquired data and everything. 

  2. Nobody gets socialism. It's proponents just ignore all of its inherent flaws. They don't have any sound arguments. As far as Marxist economics, it's just obviously flawed. Example 1: labor theory of value. It's similar to religion. It's not believed due to an examination of history and evidence. It's believed because people want to believe it. Marxism has roots in religion also. It's a mutated, atheistic form of Christian Millennialism. Instead of Christ reigning for 1000 years as paradise, the ultimate joy will be a communist utopia. Also there will be a series of eventualities that lead to this paradise. Instead of good against evil, Marx changed it to the workers (proletariat) against the capitalists, i.e., owners of capital, or bourgeoisie. The capitalists eventually make it so bad for everyone, the story goes, that the proletariat will revolt, taking control and ownership of the means of production and heralding the new age of communism, which will provide for all easily and abundantly.

    It's just a myth. It has no logical basis imo and so the majority who believe it won't be swayed by any appeals to reason or logic. If they could be, they wouldn't have been Marxists in the first place.
  3. If you don't get it, you are probably a logical, reasonable person.
    Marxism (as LayLow stated) was largely founded by attacking reason, and this was partly because they had to dismiss classical economics. This could not be done with reasoned, logical arguments, so Marx essentially said that any argument coming from the bourgeoise was incorrect because they were of that class. Marx himself came from that same class, as did his buddy Engels, but they were exempt for some reason.  
  4. Iirc they were exempt because they were intellectuals, who somehow float above the class conflict, lol.
  5. #5 Sovereign Psyche, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013
    Perhaps, in the future, that may not be true.
    You'd be surprised how many morons support "squatter's rights".
    what makes them think they can walk into someones business and take it over? that would depend on what type of things the business is doing. whos in charge, how moral is it, how much corruption is there, any abuses of power seen as going to far, are employees all unnecesarily treated like shit, alot of stuff to consider before taking over a business with force and violence.
  8. I do not get it either. 
    I got a great bumber sticker on  my car "Your life is not my fault, and mine is none of your business". It's one true statement. Its unreal how much I pay in taxes and its never enough to the octopus. 
    Socialism is inherently immoral. It diminishes the human spirit, it robs the individual of wealth and the desire to advance. Survival is natures greatest innovator. Only humanity propagates never ending help for the lowest common denominator in life. Not every one can make it, not everyone can succeed. Somehow in the collective view I am responsible for that person and are made to pay for it in never ending taxes of some sort. Whats even more insane is no one seems to care that the system they seem to want fails on a level that is so epic its biblical in scope. Whats amazing is look around the world to include the US....the majority of the Western world is broke. All that debt and what do we have to show for the spending? Not very much the majority of it was blown on insane social programs. It makes me wonder how humanity even survived up to this point. Boggles the mind. 
  9. #9 Sovereign Psyche, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013
    If you were to enact any legislation against anything just listed, it would be like walking into someone's house and telling them to poop in their bed.  If you don't like someone pooping where they want, don't go in their house.
    lol the majority of the western world is doing better then everyone else. Were broke? please. theres people that live off less then a dollar a day. I think alot of us here in america are completely blind to how bad it actually is in other countries. economically and socially. You really have no idea how lucky you are until you visit a few other poor countries. Not to discount all the problems here, but just saying. You think our criminal justice system is a shit system, just look at some other countries, where the judges are illiterate religious fundamentalists. You think your rights are being taken away and violated? just look at some other countries where a search warrant is anyone with a badge and a gun that would like to rob your house and try out your wife infront of the kids. With all the other various things that have happened in human history, you can argue that our current system is shit and i agree, but at the end of the day were some of the luckiest people in the world.
  11. I want to get high with you, so hopefully my vape session in your honor on the way to work will suffice, Mr. Pirate man.
    Thats comparing Apples to Oranges. Its not the same. Ive spent nearly all of my adult life in the Marines and now I work abroad and usually in the Middle East. I have seen and experienced things alot never do. There systems are way worse there ours but saying that things could be worse is not a excuse for inaction, not a excuse for any of it. Thats there issue not mine. 
    In Saudi Arabia they whip women for being raped. Its the females fault for allowing it to happen. She had to have seduced the male. One could say that females in the US have it easy then, tell them to suck it up in some parts of the world they would be punished. That is a irrelevant analogy that should of never been made to begin with. We are not animals. They are.
    I expect great things out of my country since in the past they often did great things. 


    What great things ?
    A unique experiment that ended up with a Federal Constitutional Republic with elected leadership. A place where a little over 300 million people and less then half all work generate close to 16 trillion GDP which is about 20% of the worlds GDP. The EU has about 600 million people and exceed our GDP by a little but its only a Union economically so its really not a nation. Thats astounding. We as nation that still regardless of the people who are naysayers still lead the world in technological, medical discoveries and about every other category. 
    We made it illegal for a human to own another which was a tremendously costly endeavor. We told the world woman were a males equals. We cracked the secrets of the atom, went to the moon, list goes on and on. 
    This century like the last will once again be the American Century. All the stars are aligning for us again. Fracking is changing everything. Cheap oil is what fueled the 20th Century and it will fuel this one. Any doubt.. just in its infancy we produce more oil now then all of Iran. Soon in the next decade well be the top oil producer on the planet. Because of that manufacturing is starting to trickle back into the country. Expect that to continue. Next decade all the baby boomers will be retired and some economists believe that our unemployment will be at the lowest levels ever. The work still needs to be done. Our only issue is our deficit. Everything else is lining right up. 
    The Socialist's can rejoice for the moment since the EU is the last bastion of hope but even they are regretting submission to the collective in all things. They are literally draining there coffers to help out a few insignificant member nations. Fracking to will end the eco trends as well. The black gold rush is to good to pass up. 
  15. #15 SmokinP, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013
    Slavery was made illegal in other parts of the world long before the US got round to it. Blacks were second class citizens in the US until the 1960's.
    The US was also far from the first to give women equal rights. New Zealand was first followed by Australia and then most of Europe.
    Regarding the "cracking of the atom", considering what the US did with this information i would not call this a "great" achievement.
    There is no arguing with the fact that the US has been the powerhouse of the 20th century but this has been built on the suffering and bloodshed of others. Today the US is on the brink of an economic disaster and the only thing keeping it motoring is the continuous wars and the money made off the back of these. 
    At the end of the 21st century the US will no longer be top dog. The Chinese are in a much better state economically and will soon be boss. Hopefully they will use this power better than their predecessor.
    IMO the only major contribution that the US has made to the world is quality porn and the availability of same through the old www. I can't see Chinese porn being of the same high quality.
  16. #16 rhapsodyrcks, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013

    Thats true but all change takes time. Nothing happens instantly. 

    The economic disaster is fixable and whats funny is the EU considers are growth which is anemic to be nothing to complain about lol. Our unemployment is awesome compared to the double dight they experience. 
    The Nuke lets not forget the Japanese killed tens of millions in camps, they started the war. Nuclear power is still by far the safest cleanest source of energy possible. Its only wackos that stand in its way. 
    As for the wars well not always. Iraq has paid us nothing and insanely 50% of all there oil has been locked up by the Chinese not the US. That and Afghan was a money losing adventure. Killing always happens you just hear about it now via Technology. The Human Experience is to suffer. 
    As for China read up brother. There no better in fact there worse because they know at this stage whats right or wrong. For instance the Chinese are building I think I read 20-30 Coal factories a month. Whats funny is the US sells them the Coal that is not suitable by the EPA for burning. They buy it by the cargo ship. Its why there capital city has sometimes 300 days or more of no sun. Its also why whatever eco BS people think we should do it will all be undone by the Chinese many times over. 
    There economics as well are very very fishy. So are the US's but theres can't even be trusted. They allow no verification of anything. The world's markets just assume its all true. In the investment world when you go year after year of insane growth after about 10 some start thinking you have a Ponzi scam. If you dont think it can happen. Its what Greece did. They cooked the books. Now there in debt till the 22nd Century literally. 
    With capital and integration with the rest of the western world comes education and eventually there people will not put up with the shit they go through. 60-80 hour minimum work weeks. Factories that have nets to stop suicide jumpers. Over in China you live eat work at the same factory to make iPhones. You sign a 2-3 year work contract. All for 150 a week! Id say they have quite a ways to go. 
    Oh lets not forget this brilliant idea. One child per family. As a result since what you do not see is 60% or more of China is still a want a boy not a girl. In China if the head exits a female the baby is considered viable so women often abort or kill anything that is not a male baby. They can wait quite a long time to abort. Well what has happened which internally the Chinese are freaking out about is they have many more males then females. In the country side you can go miles upon miles without ever seeing a girl. 
  17. I loved your first post in this thread but then you lost me. To point out every single problem with your post will take far too long, but as for a few things.
    Nuke energy might be the most effective but it is very very far from the safest and cleanest, just ask Chernoble or Fukashima. With Nuke energy its good till things go bad but then it is too late.
    About wars. We the People don't get the $$$, "we don't get weapons contracts, we don't get cheap labor, we are cheap labor, turn off the news and read" - Immortal Tech. GE has been making some record profits since the wars started though. The USA has also seen a huge spike in Heroin use, quality, and qauntity. Guess where almost all of the worlds Opium is grown. Hint:Its in a country under USA occupation. CIA has been known to run drugs just saying. Also have you read about all the minral deposites found in Afgan?
    Yes China does have all the problem you stated, but they also have a rapidly growing middle and upper class. In the Year 2010(the USA was in the mist of a reccision) China added 262000 millionairs to its ranks.
    (Sorry for any spelling, no spell check in this new verison of GC)
    The EU is fucked and anything that its leaders spew to quell the rising tensions here is done to appease both Europeans and the big bully who is always sitting on the school fence watching and waiting - the US government. This does not take away from the fact that the big ship "the US" is sailing into the abyss with no attempts being made to anchor or change direction. The majority of economists agree on this. 
    I agree that nuclear power is a good thing but the downside is the weapons that this advancement brought. The atomic bombs that the US dropped on Japan are inexcusable. There was no justification for it. It remains a slight on the image of the US that will never diminish or be forgotten.
    As a cog in the war machine i know that you have been conditioned and programmed to think in a certain way, i don't think it would be unfair of me to say that you have been desensitized to the suffering that the US war machine is responsible for. There is no justification for any war that the US has waged since WW2. None. They have all been about empire building and money making rackets.
    Regarding the Chinese and their policies, who are we in the West to judge them ? We raped most of the world with the various colonies etc etc.,.. The one thing i will say about the Chinese though is how many wars are they involved in ? How many wars have they been involved in over the last 30 years ?
  19. Socialism is a childish dream.

    Socialists tend to be idealist kids mad at the rich for not sharing and blaining them for there being poor people.


    Grow up socialists

    Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app

  20. You really can't compare a 3rd world country to a 1st world country....sure there's more fucked up places to live but as far as 1st world countries go, the USA is pretty fucked up politically and socioeconomically.

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