I'm starting to think no one can give you an example of a successful socialist country. Reality bites hard.
The right says Democratic socialism is a failure and bad, the left says it's a model of a better society. And I definitely don't believe American conservatives.
What about Scandinavian social democrats? You'll believe anything your politician says about us, but not us Ruthlessly examine whether you truly stand on a foundation of knowledge about social democracies, or whether you're just part of a political religion that feels righteous
Ok. As mentioned before, I`m on a city break long weekend. I have tho` managed to score some neat weed, and have gotten away from my wife, for a quick blunt for 10 mins or so. So, a quick look tells me I have got some here frothing. I apologise for the blood pressure increases in advance. For me, It`s like this: WE ARE ALL SOCIALISTS, when we think about it. We just don`t realise it.. There, I`ve blurted it out. So, how? I have noticed the incredible backlash with some interest. I feel that "Commy" and "Tree-hugger" etc. is actually FAR from an insult. It actually means that I want the best for people of all differing social situations, including the poorest. If that`s an insult, I can handle it. Being a Socialist does not make me a hippy. Socialism recognises that Capitalism generally results in vast inequality, so you would hope that at some juncture, the state has to step in to curb this, yes? Surely. It`s not total Socialism, it`s merely a safety net, to protect those with less income, or opportunity. So, you still get the chance to make and keep shit-loads of money, have ambitions of betterment, whilst others can`t even eat, then the state should intervene to protect them. Yes? Socialism is the belief that the poorest should still have some form of roof/food, whilst austerity (the times we live in) believes that a $700,000 house is affordable. This simply can`t add up. Socialism is healthcare for all, the welfare state, assisting the poor and vulnerable, eradicating homelessness, treating war veterans with decency, free legal aid in times of turmoil, as in equal access to legal representation. Such terrible things? Benefits for the disabled, how bad of a bastard do you have to be to object to this? A decent living wage, adequate housing, the very basic of Human rights. A bad thing? No? Socialistic values. So, do you believe that everyone should have access to the legal system? Yes? Socialistic values. Do you believe that people with e.g. cancer should have to worry about bankruptcy before their health? No? Socialistic values. Someone mentioned the Federal Reserve. Let`s move into banks then. (Moore, but I make no apology) An entire town relies on a factory, the bank offer surety on the factory and close it. The population is forced into foreclosure, and the bank mops up. Said factory re-opens, and the very same people have to buy their house all over again with a new mortgage. Is that too much power? I think so, given that the bank sell these things with ZERO capital to back it up. I also stated before that a blanket say, 20% from billionaire to waitress pay the same. This would work. The removal of rich people`s funds to say, the Cayman Islands should be castrated at the root, to prevent this ultimate greed and avoidance. However, those whom govern us, would NEVER agree. And that is another WHY? (that needs little answering) Oh, and as the rain has got to my blunt, and my lighter is fucked, I have to make my way back to the hotel. I never offered or advocated "Perfection" anywhere here. Just a re-think? We are a worldly, and generally nice people who wish for a Utopian solution. I can`t offer this. I only wish that some think about it. Like adults. Now my wife will moan like a bitch...........but hey. Peace. Please re-read this, before letting the fucking dogs out.
Nice to see you are still baiting and trolling but, contrary to your fixed stereotypical opinion... I have been retired for several years living very comfortably on MY MONEY and barring any major illness or accident should have a nice amount to leave to family and or charities... If i've said it once i've said it 14 times, it's not because "i" feel entitled to shrinking the enormous inequality of wealth and justice for myself... i post as a voice for those who can't... many without homes let alone smartphones or computers... the "disenfranchised" you could say... i am not one "of" them but not so full of myself i cannot have empathy, understanding and compassion... you know, the traits so called "Christians" were taught to develop... No, i'm not at all afraid of anyone getting a bite, slice or 2 slices of my pie if it is for the good of the whole... (humanity) we are souls having a human experience, the clock is ticking, it won't last forever... we all have a shelf life, time we get over ourselves and do a little good for others imo. PEACE BRO!
Another simplistic viewpoint. You work in a factory, clearly Capitalist owned, paid well, however more profit (the ultimate desire) results in machination of that factory, thus lowering wages. Yet still producing the same goods. Then the Capitalist owner finds that the unemployment, or far lower wages, make your product un-sellable . as no one can afford it. Step in the banks. Credit offers to keep you in line, and afford these goods, (even tho` the wage are not equitable) And here we are. Modern slavery. Not chains.... Debt. Now, I`m well out. I value my marriage at this moment.
I was wondering when anyone was going to get to that. No question about it. It's not the common poly-sci textbook definition or typical connotation most imagine, but have no doubt The U.S. and anyone else on the planet these days practicing a so-called democracy is really just dabbling in various strains of socialism hidden under convenient labels.
@Slick21 If we are all socialists then why not voluntary socialism? No I think we are all anarchists and are brianwashed from cradle to grave to be a subservient statist. If people want to be socialist, isolationist or anything else, let them decide. If living in isolation sucks, maybe they will move to a voluntary socialist society.
Why would anyone want to discard the most successful economic system ever devised by man (capitalism), in favor of a system that has never worked anywhere (socialism). Where is the liberty of being indebted to others, against your will? Capitalism has freed more people, raised the standard of living of more people and fed more people than anything man has ever tried. I'm always puzzled by those that would demand the gov't subjugate the effort, skill and talents of free men. Excellence is not equal. Envy is a sin. Just because others have more than me doesn't negate my happiness.
You're lumping the two together, like so many others do. Capitalism is an economic form, socialism is a government. The two can be intertwined, Democratic Socialism, which is working more successfully in the Nordic countries versus America. And to the others, I am not going to take 1-2 anecdotal reports over the information I'm seeing from career politicians with a proven voting track record, doctors, and other specialists of the countries they are vouching for. Just like I don't believe a few fools who think waiting a week for an MRI in Canada when you get it for free and it's not urgent, is bad.
You're gonna have your hands full convincing me that I'm being lied to and manipulated by listening to the likes of Bernie Sanders and his media. Seeing as Finland I think ranks number 1 in overall reported happiness, you seem to be the odd one out. Just like the select very few who in all realism,stupidly, hate the Canadian healthcare system.
We are well aware that your country contains a good capitalist economy. However, I would be willing to BET that it is more well regulated than our Capitalist economy. Some things I'd like to know, how many Denmark corporations go overseas to take advantage of tax loopholes, do they inject money into politics (is it legal,) what do the top percent pay in taxes (googleable) Your minimum wage is higher by law, your healthcare is government subsidized, you have workers benefits, and a myriad of things that Americans are only fighting for over here. Our government and economy wants to get away with giving as little as it can while making as much as it can, and while obviously you have a capitalist economy and have the same goal, your government prevents unrestrained capitalism. I feel like you have some burden of proff here to show that I am being fed misinformation from the progressive movement. Because so far, the most blaring misinformation, aside from the usual propaganda of things like Russia and all that jazz, has come straight from Faux News.
I'm not saying we're unhappy, here, where do you have that from? I'm telling you that your politician is lying to you about our system! The Danish prime minister called Bernie out for his bullshit. Does that mean nothing to you? I'm Norwegian! Why on Earth would I be trying to mislead you? What do I possibly have to gain from lying to you - as opposed to what does an American politician have to gain by lying to you? I can't get your vote, man, but Bernie can feed his power by tricking you with promises of gold and silk! Are you not aware of how completely brainwashed by a politician you seem? How are you any different from the Trump supporters who follow him blindly, when you follow Bernie Sanders blindly? I'm astounded by your lack of reflection and your eagerness to suck a politician's dick when someone from the system he's lying about is desperately trying to demonstrate to you, with heaps of evidence, that you're being hoodwinked, and that this version you're being hoodwinked by is much harder to sell to the rest of the American public than the real thing!
Relink this Danish Prime Minster shit. I'll go back and look for the "heaps of evidence" So I'm being lied to that you have a high quality subsidized healthcare system that costs less than the USA, that you have affordable schooling, that you have paid maternal leave, vacation time, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc? All lies? Totally brainwashed?
What we need to focus on is the monetary system. The U.S. is not failing because of capitalism or socialism but monetary manipulation.
No - you're being lied to about how we have those things! They're extremely fragile! How well studied are you on Scandinavia, ReturnFire? Honestly now, how much have you studied our countries? I don't mean what Bernie has told you about us? Here's a good place to start: Explain to me, from the ground up, in detail, how Norway has the education system it has. How does Lånekassen function? What are the prerequisites for acceptance to Norwegian universities? What part of the budget is set aside for it, and what motivations does the Norwegian state have for maintaining this system? How does it feed into our economy? A good case study to begin with
Nevermind, I found it I think "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism," he said. "Therefore, I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy." No fucking shit, everyone with half of half of a functioning brain knows that Denmark's ECONOMY is not socialist, can socialism even BE an economy? I guess maybe if a state is purely socialist, it can? I'm ignorant on PURE socialism, I'm more well versed on democratic socialism. No one is fucking saying their economy isn't capitalist. We're talking about the combination of a socialist government, with a capitalist economy.
Failing? That's ok. People much more informed than you have predicted the failure of the U.S. for a couple hundred years. What country is currently (and generally) driving the world economy? Oh and @Slick21, you @Returntosender are the only ones here that I sense anger from. Just because people provide examples showing you to be all wet...does not mean they are angry. Projection is not very becoming.