I imagine not very many people were pleasant... neat story though. Anyhow, historically, the decadence of society is related to its demise. That's what Will pointed out for me in The History of India. Just after when the Vedas were tossed out and man started to say there was no soul and no God and nothing but atoms in a vacuous space, so live to eat and drink and seek pleasure. So... also seen in preWW2 Germany, like in the prelude to TGSNT documentary. That's an ugly hole though... and I don't want to talk about that.
Interesting article about a socialist organisation worshipped by many Americans. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...icas-socialist-utopia/?utm_term=.a6c30320c9f1
theres no discussion to it unless your a fool that believes in something that never has and will NEVER work... If you want a socialist country move the fuck across the pond This is America land of the free and home of the brave ... DEAL WITH IT
Have you ever read the short story "I pencil"? It shows how no one person knows how to construct a pencil on their own, and that thousands of people come together some even being enemies to construct a pencil. No authoritarian over lord is needed, the markets get it done.
"The more Plato thinks of it, the more astounded he is at the folly of leaving the mob caprice and gullibility the selection of political officials - not to speak of leaving it to those shady and wealth-serving strategists who pull the oligarchic wires behind the democratic stage" The Story of Philosophy, W. Durant, 1926 oh and Plato ~350BC.
This is what we call a strawman argument. I would rather support local co-ops growing wholesome food (in harmony with nature) instead of funding CEO pirates that knowingly let 737s fall out of the sky. Do you support crashing 737s?! Then you must be a capitalist. see... now this is a different kinda of argument ... whats it called again>? fancy french term...
actually... its not tu quoque, or a strawman argument, but they are both red herrings. I would call out the video's argument as being an example of tone policing and a Texas sharpshooter fallacy. Sorry, but this argument must be dismissed.
There's a well-organized command structure in making that pencil, tho, with a leader having set the structure up? I'm confused People cooperate better with a command structure, is my point. Not that one person knows everything about making the pencil, but that leadership figures within each element of the pencil (wood, graphite, rubber, design, etc) organize it's construction from those elements, with one leadership structure at the top deciding which region makes what, who gets hired, etc etc. Someone's the boss of the pencil company, and they hire the boss of the wood company, and the rubber factory, and the factory that assembles the pencil etc... all of these subdivisions have hierarchies Edit: Let me know if I'm talking past you or misunderstanding you here
Forced, not consent based. And please don't discredit yourself further with that tired old "if you don't like it you are free to leave" bullshit. You know damn well that is a near impossible option for most people.
I think we are talking past each other a bit i didn't explain my thinking before posting the video. I'm not denying there was structure that organically developed, i'm trying to show that this is much different than socialism which is a planned society. Of course there is a hierarchy, to deny this would be stupid. I'm suggesting that the hierarchy is way more diffused than people believe in a free market society, and that it is based on voluntary exchange not top down rule. In making that pencil there was no one that planned the process. Instead it was millions of groups from all over the world who often gathered the resources for the pencil not even knowing what it would be used for. When they first extracted led and later graphite it wasn't intended for the pencil, nor the cedar tree that was cut. It was much later down the line that someone combined all these materials to make the pencil. NO ONE PERSON HAS THE KNOWLEDGE TO BUILD A PENCIL. Also it was not a leader that decided which region makes what, it was the market....Cedar only grows in certain areas, they are cut for reasons largely unknown by the logging companies. Often times it is a one man show with a self loading truck. They care not what it is used for but only try to meet the demand of the markets. Prices determine how much is cut, where it is sent, and what it is used for. They do not cut wood for pencils directly. People cooperate better when they are free to exchange ideas services and goods, not under a command structure. We desire to participate in a fare game not to be told what to do. A hierarchy will form, but that is much different than saying hierarchies make people cooperate. To sum it up basically I agree with you that hierarchies form and are helpful and natural, but to take it to the level that a planned society is preferred over a free market one is insane (not that you did). In electing officials who control the economic output of even something as simple as the pencil would be disastrous. For them to pretend that they know what is best for something as complicated as medicine and medical care is downright evil.
We agree on this, then. I'm all for a global economy, and markets with few regulations (regulating movement of people more than movement of goods, say). Don't forget that even how much Bernie Sanders and the US far left wants to hold us Scandinavians up to be some radical leftist hippie utopia, we're cutthroat capitalist societies.
Simply mind boggling isn't it. How a person could attempt something and fail due to his own merit, yet still support a system that allowed him to fail due to his own merit....
I think it's noble stuff. I had to fail a couple of times, before things turned out. Thankful to be in a governmental system that gives me a good chance - and then gives me a second and third, when I fail. So long as I'm willing to try, the door is open.