Okay, I know people have some pretty strong opinions on this topic, but let's try to keep it civil, alright? If you can't handle this conversation without resorting to petty name calling and character assassination, then this is not the thread for you. So I've thought about this for a while and here's my take. Let's start off by talking about inheritance. When your parents die they pass down to you and your siblings the fruits of their life's labor. If they have land or a house or even a couple houses that they purchased with the money they earned during their careers, that becomes yours. You didn't earn it but it's yours. It's your birthright because of the family you were born into, through no fault of your own. Now let's talk for a second about the descendants of freed slaves. Their ancestors propped up an agrarian economy in the American South through hard labor and were never compensated for that labor. These were the people that built America and never got anything in return for that, but instead lived lives never knowing freedom. Now their descendants are trying to get by in modern day America and could use some help definitely because the established systems in place in this country have not been very kind to them. Don't you think they deserve some of the fruits of their ancestors' labor? Isn't that their birthright? If you're still with me at this point, now we need to ask, how do we quantify the exact amount these people are owed? Can we fully pay them what is rightfully theirs or would the economic toll of that sink the country? I'm not sure of the answers to these questions but I am concerned that a massive one time payout would skyrocket the national debt at a time that it is already at record levels. Perhaps an annual payout over many years is more realistic. I'm not sure but it's a conversation that needs to be had. Another question is how do you determine eligibility? Is it as simple as every black person in America or do you exclude, for example, someone who immigrated from Nigeria 10 years ago since their ancestors were never enslaved in this country? Also, is there an age cutoff? Is this for legal adults only or for children is the money placed in a trust that they will have access to upon becoming an adult? What are all of your thoughts on this?
I have thought about this and I largely agree with what you say. I am all for justice, and justice here is almost impossible. Trying to quantify the wealth generated by people 150+ years ago and where that wealth is now, I am not sure that is possible. It 100% shouldn't come from taxes/government, it should come from the people that stole that labor value. Strange that we talk about such crimes committed long ago when labor value is stolen as we speak. Where are your fed/irs reparations? That we can quantify right now. Where is that $21trillion in missing money from DoD and HUD? I'm sure we wouldn't mind ~$75k for every single person in the U.S.A.
How are we going to take the money just from the descendants of slave owners though? A lot of them probably don't have that much money anymore. Unfortunately it's going to have to come from the government. As for the missing money from the budget, that's fucking gone. Vanished. Never to be seen again. We need to elect some people who aren't corrupt enough to allow massive amounts of money to go missing. But that's a story for another thread.
One question is, will century old policy record and stats show proved change now? Republicans are not in that game. I don't know who the heck a liberal is so I don't call anyone by any political term, same for racism. But who here seriously would like to put their neck out here for a second and say Republicans would do anything about the topic.
You can't take from people who've never owned slaves, to give to people that were never slaves. Ever notice how this is a bi-yearly conversation? It only comes up during an election year, and nobody ever does a thing about it. We had a two term black president and he didn't even do something about it. Today's Forcast... Partly Cloudy With A Chance Of Amber.
in all sincerity i personally feel like the question of repatriation is a non-starter. i don't see any logic in it whatsoever. i'll go further and suggest it is a ridiculous proposition. if anyone should receive renumeration perhaps it's the families of the victims of the 1921 Tulsa massacre. i could get behind that. slavery was abolished in 1865. what are we talking about here? repatriations to whom and for what?
Reparations for unpaid wages paid to the living descendants of those who provided the labor without pay.
Ok if this is the case we would have to drive even deeper and compensate all the Irish slaves who also helped build this country. Slavery was a horrible time in American history but there was also white slaves who paid horrible demands to stay alive. What's it gonna take to move past this when slavery involved more then just blacks. What about Indians which are my ancestors. My tribe was forced from Wisconsin and pushed to Oklahoma
you asked for others thoughts and that is mine - let it drop. there is no logical way to administer such an idea. it's ludicrous. do you think there was no white poverty? no white people picked cotton? no white people in servitude? no white people having their land and possessions stolen or burned, their women raped, the men and children slaughtered? who's the boogeyman? me? my great, great, granddad? my mother's family? who? is it just "the white man"? why not send your idea of repatriations to England? they started all of it along with tribal chiefs in Africa selling their own people and the people they had conquered and enslaved. "white American people" ended slavery. generalized repatriations for people who claim being African Americans? N.F.W. i would protest against such a brazen idea as vigorously as BLM attempts to advance their agenda. emphasis added. ludricous! and i dont mean the multi-million $ self-made actor and rapper. you know of him right? we all know a popular definition of insanity right? how many more attempts and actions have to be made for African-Americans to feel like they are part of America and expect one more time for "this time" to make a difference in their minds!
That is the problem i am talking about. You don't steal from innocent people to "right a wrong" and if you cannot find the guilty party, justice cannot be had. Not only is that wrong, it would understandably be met with vigorous resistance and cause more problems than it purports to solve.
In a way we all saw a trickle down benefit from the pre 1865 economy. I know it's going to be unpopular among some people but I feel there needs to be some remuneration. And we've piled onto the deficit for much less worthy causes.
Whats truly sad is that it was the French who forced the potawatomi tribes from their lands. Wasnt the British who came to this country settling our colonies in our history books. I'm a French Indian
The descendants benefit from the trickle down as much as anyone else. Listen, think about this from first principles, you are advocating justice, justice is equalizing/balancing the scales, how can you make a wrong right by committing a wrong? Government debt is either stolen from the whole population, who didnt commit the crime, or stolen from the future.
150 years of policy that kept black people down says otherwise. I'm all for hearing other solutions though, if they'll fix the systemic problems. What could be done? Also, the debt is never going to get paid off. We're just pretending it will be until we reach a point that we can't borrow anymore.
Can you quantify that the population at large residually benefits from past slavery but the descendants dont? I cannot come up with how to enact justice in this case. The entire past and present of humanity is replete with injustice, all we can reasonably do is be just going forward.
Feels like a flaw that came from the old world to the new world. The point of coming to the new world was to demolish these traits. Whats sucks is it took alot longer then it should of to abolish things like slavery. By this time it was to late and the damage was done. Multiple cultures suffered from slavery with multiple countries trying to lay claim to the new country. How do we determine whats owed when so many countries where involved
Reparations would be impossible to quantify. For the record, I hate politicians. I hate republicans. I hate democrats. I am registered independent and have voted in democratic primaries and republican primaries. I am about as independent minded as they come. I don't trust any of them. I am pro LGBT. I am pro immigration. I am pro minorities. I believe police need to be charged with murder. Police need to be 'policed'. There should be citizen review boards with real power that take complaints seriously. Police should not stop and harass people based on their race (see: review board). They should not be trigger happy and gun down people based on their race. Having said all that: I/We voted in an African American president. WOW. I thought that was almost a sure fire way to show that America has finally moved on from racial inequality once and for all. Evidently not. I live in the Charlotte, NC area. Take a look at Charlotte, NC leadership. Even though Mecklenburg County is ~33% African American (according to census data): Mayor Vi Alexander Lyles (African American) James Mitchell Jr. Council member at large (African American) Braxton Winston, II Council member at large (African American) Chief of Police Chief Johnny Jennings (African American) Marcus Jones City Manager (African American) Earnest Winston - School Super Intendent (African American) Malcolm Graham Council member, district 2 (African American) Renee Johnson Council member, district 4 (African American) Dimple Ajmera Council member at large (Indian) Tariq Bokhari Council member, district 6 (Unsure, clearly not a Caucasian name) Larken Egleston Council member, district 1 (Caucasian) Victoria Watlington Council member, district 3 (Caucasian) Matt Newton Council member, district 5 (Caucasian) Edmund H. Driggs Council member, district 7 (Caucasian) Julie Eiselt Mayor pro tem (Caucasian) African American's are in key positions and are running this community. Not enough. Given these observations, I have no confidence that even if we cut huge reparation checks, the community would be appeased. It would not be enough. It just makes you want to throw up your hands and leave the country. My wife and I have talked about that very topic and are passively considering it when my youngest goes off to college. For me, I'm ready and have the means. My wife is more reluctant to that drastic of a change. I don't know if it would take too many more "shoves" though. Will reparations TRULY help the community? I don't believe so. What I think will help the community is cultural shifts and education. What if the vast majority of African Americans were software developers, engineers, biologists, doctors, orthodontists, owning restaurants, owning HVAC companies, electrician companies, and on and on. Over time, THAT will shift the perspective. So my reparation proposal is not issuing checks, but funding college. Let's get these young people out of the handcuffs and into great careers with bright futures. It will take a few generations. It's a long play. I grew up in a single wide trailer with no money in sight. My dad sold used cars. My mom was a secretary. We were so broke that McDonalds was a SPECIAL meal. I put myself through college with a shitton of debt. Took me a decade to pay it off. Now I make great money as a software engineer and will be able to put my 2 girls through college. Now my kids will have a great opportunity ahead of them with a Dad who is teaching them how to succeed. I am the start to a new family tree branch and the same can be done in the African American community.
What about white slaves? Or indentured servants? People assume slavery is ONLY a black thing. It's not. Please research history. My ancestors were indentured servants meaning...someone in America paid their way across the ocean so they could come and work for them. That is until their debt is paid off in full. Then they were free to live their lives. That is a form of slavery. Should I receive reparations for the way my ancestors were treated? Should the Israelites receive reparations for when they were slaves in Egypt? Reparations for everyone. All things being equal. Would cash money make everyone feel better?? Will someone pay my rent for a year? My car payments. That would make me real happy. I deserve it. My ancestors worked really hard. Does it sound ridiculous when a white man asks for reparations? I think so. It seems silly for any race to ask for it. That's how I feel. Where did the idea of reparations come from?
"supposedly" I've got some Choctaw in me on my mother's side many, generations before her. not much to lay a claim to and i've never thought about it gut have been proud of it in times past. they, like all other native americans, were forcibly relocated from land they occupied for a documented 1700 years. i feel bad for them and i'm glad i wasnt around then - or was i? people need to live in the now. there are so many different business models developing for the "new normal". i dont care what color skin you have or who's your daddy, if you walk around, talk around, and hang around looking unsavory, or as a thug, you're not gonna get far in society. that's what my experience is and has always been. it's the old addage, "dress for success". repatriation? there's some in the form of good advice: look for a problem people have or a service they need and fill the gap. that's how you make money ime. if you dont have what people want or need you're doomed be it whatever society structure you can pick.