Since there appears to be some confusion ...

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by tHe LoNLy StOnR, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Do any of you ever feel like people should at least be 100% honest with you at times?

    I see this being brought up, again and again, by posters who feel that certain others - me in particular - are trolling, when in fact they could perhaps just be trying to get people to see things for what they are?

    In normal social interaction - the kind you do face-to-face - the people we're speaking to won't give us their true feelings on a matter we're discussing for a variety of reasons - the most trite excuse being that they want to spare our feelings. Now I'm the kind of person that sees that interacting - if it could even be called that, seeing as the person is just saying what they think you want to hear - in this way, leads to greater problems down the line - for both parties involved. Embarrassment and guilt are the byproducts of not speaking up. eg.

    Person 1: I'm going to wear my underwear over my head today.

    Person 2: That's ... interesting, Person 1.

    Person: Cool. See you.

    LATER...

    Person 1: Why the fuck didn't you tell me that I looked like an idiot? I'm so embarrassed.

    Person 2: Don't be. They just don't understand you. (Note to self: I feel guilty as shit. Why didn't I say anything? Oh yeah. I tried to spare his feelings.)

    Person 1: Do you really think so?

    And it goes on like this.

    Why can't we just be open? If not irl, why not on the internet? Why don't we call out others' ideas that might lack logic? Who knows, we might be the only thing stopping our fellow basement dwellers - not an insult - from being hurt irl.

    Internet Guy 1: My friend won't believe me when I say that I'm an ancient alien from the future.

    Internet Guy 2: Prove it.

    Internet Guy 1: I see what you're trying to do. You're trolling me.

    Internet Guy 2: Just because I don't believe it, doesn't mean you can just label me a troll. You have to prove it; the burden of proof rests with you, idiot.

    Internet Guy 1: Why are you calling me an idiot? You're close-minded for disagreeing. (Note to self: He called me an idiot, and I decided to only respond to his insult. Am I really that insecure? What am I talking about? He's a troll, and I am right because I called him a troll before he could call me one.)

    Internet Guy 3: Internet Guy 1 could possibly maybe, in an alternate dimension, be right. You just want to argue IG2. (Note to self: This is a discussion forum, but I'm ignoring IG 2's opinion on the matter. But fuck it ... Hey I made a pun that has absolutely no context. I'm high and that alone is reason for it to be funny. That reminds me ... I've got to IM IG1. :smoke:

    Internet Guy 4: IG1, don't listen to him; he's a troll. Keep believing what you believe in, and one day it might come true.

    Internet Guy 1: Thanks Guys. anus feels clean now that your noses are full of shit.

    Why don't we challenge flimsy beliefs? Why do we allow logic-less beliefs to flourish?
     
  2. Haha I like this post, but I don't get the phrase "at least 100% honest"... do you mean be really blunt?

    I believe we should all be blunt with tact
     
  3. This pertains to philosophy because it is a satrised example of the search for truth .... blah blah blah.

    And I needed to get a human perspective on this issue, because, apparently, I lack self-awareness.
     
  4. Whatever it takes to get someone to critically analyse their beliefs.
     
  5. Your personal conduct is all bad, instead of insulting someones beliefs, why don't you nod your head and move on? Is it your sole duty in life to question everyone's beliefs? And if it is, isn't impossible to do it without insulting? You see my mother and brother do the same shit as you, I'm used to it, but the problem is, just because I'm used to it, doesn't mean I want to keep hearing the false ridicule. You call it logic? I call it insults used in a irrational way. Like you ever pay attention to anything anyone posts, you only take what you would like to hear and twist it according to the way you see fit, and you call it logic.

    And just because (insert noun here) isn't 100% honest, doesn't mean it doesn't have some truth in it. It seems to me you want perfection, you're not getting it buddy, (insert noun here) is not perfect, nothing is perfect. Hell I don't even believe God is perfect.

    But yet you would like for everyone to be perfect, you want 100% from everyone, you want everyone to be conformed, to your 'perfect' standard of thinking.

    What's wrong with that is, like I said, nothing is perfect.

    Ever hear the quote, live and let live. Shit man live and let die even as long as you mind your own business and don't contest with everyone about everything.

    If I said on a post, I'm a christian, I believe the world is flat. I believe the universe revolves around the earth. What would you do?

    Me? I wouldn't try to correct him, I would just ignore him, and let him be. You? You would probably go insult him, and be a dick to him in every which way, to seemingly get your point across. There is multiple answers to one problem. You don't have to be a dick, both of us are wrong with our response, admonish the person, just tell him the facts, and be cool about it, don't go say, 'and yea the Easter bunny is calling, he's telling you the flying spaghetti monster is on the way to teach you the world is round, and the earth revolves around the sun.'
     
  6. You see the point of democracy, which I strongly believe in, is that you let everyone be, let them be what they want, be proactive in your life, and only reactive when someone violates your freedom. If say, Christians planned to take over the world through a cunning government that calls for the persecution of atheists and non-Christians alike, and is dedicated to military technology and keeping the world under control through fundamentalists beliefs, then as a democracy, you would have to rise to defend your rights. You would have to say, these Christians claim to be from God but know nothing of life, except death.

    My point is, only react when it really threatens you, not when you feel like it threatens you.

    Is that a hobby of yours? To question everyone's beliefs? That's very undemocratic of you. Live and let live, or live and let die. Whatever..
     
  7. The problem with being too blunt is that most people cant handle the blunt truth and sometimes what may be the "blunt truth" in your eyes may not actually be the truth in someone elses eyes so it's good to be honest but not in a rude way and keep in mind that your honesty is just your own opinion.
     
  8. In example one, What if person #2 told him that was fine to wear underwear on his head because he wanted to get an advantage over him in a certain way. He wanted him to make a fool of himself so person #2 could advance in life? You say it was to spare his feelings, I say it was something different
     
  9. And here we go with the irrational logic again: If nobody is perfect, does that not mean that my opinion is also valid?
     
  10. So we should just let people hold on to irrational beliefs? Live and let live, huh?

    So just agreeing and ignoring the irrational beliefs of others is better than to challenge them, huh? What causes more damage?
     
  11. I think what they're saying is not that challenging people with irrational beliefs is wrong, but how you do it might be. The fact that in doing it the way you do, you get people's backs up, or make them feel criticised, or whatever, rather than explore why they think that way.

    They're saying that instead of always reacting to what someone says, there are other options. Explore, allow, let go. accept.
     
  12. Meh. Must be the cultural differences, I guess. I could tone it down a little. But the internet is like it's own culture, get what I'm saying? And I always felt that we could say what we really felt on the internet, without a filter. Guess we aren't there yet.
     
  13. I feel we can say things more easily on the internet than we can in the real world. I don't know about any cultural differences (I've met a number of south africans in my time and had no problem interacting with any of them). Yes, they were quite direct - but I like that. Perhaps others had more of a problem with it - certainly not the Israeli's who are amongst the most direct people on the planet!

    It's an odd thing debating in a virtual way like this. We haven't been doing it very long as a people. I'm sure we've got further to go in our ability to do it well, but then, as we're all different, there may only be so far we can go. I tend to feel it's more important to be ourselves as much as possible in the long run. If it ruffles a few feathers as a result - so what!
     
  14. What makes you so certain that your beliefs are the absolute truth? You seem to hold your own opinions as the law of the land, and anyone who disagrees is a stoned idiot? Maybe im being to blunt :laughing:
     
  15. Perhaps you are. ;)

    You make a good point though.

    It seems too easy to make things all about the one saying it, when we should be dealing with what's been said exclusively. People seem to feel that it's alright to become offensive when they don't agree with what someone has said or the way they've said it. Kind of like when someone chooses to resort to violence when they're ego is unable to win the argument.

    The old adage of - if you have nothing to say say nothing, doesn't seem to work so well sometimes.
     
  16. The ego is a funny thing, isn't it? The world would be very dull and boring w/o them though
     
  17. Well, I have a feeling there'd be a lot less wars. Come to think of it we might not have any religions either.

    Perhaps we need a bit of dull and boring. :eek:
     
  18. thats what the ego is telling you, its tricky isnt it?
     

  19. I think "ego" as a motivator has pushed people to achieve many things that they wouldn't have achieved without it. Good will alone only takes us so far, "pride" and self esteem are limited without "ego" as a measuring stick of what "effort" and "determination" consists of and what others have achieved by comparison.

    And if you don't believe me, then believe sky hooks when they say.

    "Ego is not a dirty word, dirty word,dirty word" :smoking:
     

  20. But that's what your ego is telling you, isn't that right?

    You cannot possibly live a normal life without giving in to the demands of your ego. You are your ego and as such you can't run away from your ego. You'll end up dissociated or, worse yet, catatonic.

    Think about this example: It's the middle ages in some alternate universe and a "witch" is being dragged to her resting place: the stake. Before they can set light to her, she whips out a revolver and points it the gathered crowd. Upon recognising that she has a gun - remember this is an alternate universe - the crowd scatters. But why do they scatter? She only has enough ammunition to maybe harm a few of them, isn't it? They ran because they all think they will die. They don't even think that they can quickly overpower this witch before she can even do any harm. That is the egoic thinking with which we have all been cursed, but alas, we more "knowledgable" folk know that this is merely a form of heuristics and we label this a survival instinct, right?
     

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