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Simply Putting Forth Some Clearity (Genesis)

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by livingsoul, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. #1 livingsoul, Jan 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2010
    I am simply posting this to put forth some clearity with regard to 'Genesis'

    Some people on this site refer to 'Genesis' and attempt to discover 'the' 'forbidden fruit'

    I have done other than read all the entries relating to such
    from those I have read I believe they currently do other other than comprehend a certain piece of information

    from my comprehension of 'Genesis' I have noticed this
    to an extent with regard to where you read up to
    There are two different 'tree' bearing different 'fruit' which could have been more free more allowed are 'forbidden' at 'Genesis'
     
  2. Yes, the tree of life.

    God stated that since we ate from the tree of knowledge (Good and evil) we will surely die. He banished us from Eden so we wouldn't eat from the tree of Life. We aren't suppose to be immortal.

    People love to ask "Why didn't god make a perfect world but made such a shitty one instead?"

    Well, he did. We fucked it up for us.
     
  3. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
     
  4. Lol like I haven't seen this before. Same question after question and even if you get an answer you'll come back with another pointless question. Its like.. why bother?


    God gave us free choice, to choose to obey or not to obey. We decided to disobey. Thus bringing in all the evil, all the sin and death into the world.

    He is a perfect being, he cannot create evil or sin. Being able and not willing doesn't automatically make him malevolent.

    I'll gladly take all the pain and suffering that i deserve. Compared to heaven, this full life of pain and suffering will be nothing, nothing at all, compared to eternal bliss.
     
  5. Hmmm, so i thought the serpent (created by god who is infalable) persuaded eve (also crated by god) to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and she then pursuaded adam (yet again made by god) to eat it so god condemed all of humanity to eternal damnation unless they did what he said (including rape, murder and genocide.)

    So i fail to see where i or anybody else fucked anything up. It's either god's plan is we are dammed from the start or there is no god (sorry to be so absolutist.)
    I always liked gen 3:15, a rare bit of bible humor.

    And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel

    Quality, although it should have been a spider i think:D
     
  6. #6 Perpetual Burn, Jan 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2010
    We're building the Golden City.

    God is going to come live with us. (Already is.)

    This life is not nothing... it is everything. It's our job to clean up the mess we've made.


    Genesis, in my opinion, is not really saying that Adam and Eve screwed the rest of us over or that a talking snake told them to eat the fruit. It's a metaphor for the fact that we all have the choice to commit evil... we know what it is before we do it. "Talking to the snake" is ignoring your conscience... which will create problems... suffering/hell.
     
  7. And a lot about 'herb that bears seed' that it's ok to eat and as Mairuzu said 2 trees, of life and of knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life wasn't forbidden to Adam and Eve in the begining only as punishment for eating of the tree of knowledge when they were booted from the garden.
    I always found it allegorical for the ascention of man from ape although thats not the intended purpose:smoke:

    (as in life is eternal if you have no concept of death)
     

  8. yes yes which then comes to does the good atheiest go to hell question. Lives his life better than any christian (as he expects no reward his being good has no selfish motive like going to heaven) yet must still suffer an eternity for his lack of sin.
    Billions of People are Going to Hell!

    :confused_2:
     
  9. Well, there's no actual hell (or even Heaven) for people to go to when they die in the Old Testament. Hell is only used allegorically in the New Testament as a way to kind of re-tell the tree of knowledge story... some guy "in hell" was wanting to tell his friend on earth to stop doing the things he knew was wrong because he will be punished for him, but the angel was like, "He knows what he's doing, if we tell him not to then he'll only quit to avoid judgment." (not an exact quote)

    Basically saying, that being good just to avoid punishment is not really being good and not gonna cut it in God's eyes.

    And to add to that, just paying lip-service to God will not help either... "Did we not prophesy by thy name?"

    So, the New Testament actually says what you want it to about the nature of judgment.

    And it doesn't really say there's a Heaven and Hell to go to for all of eternity... just that we will be stand before the throne. My guess is that we're always before the throne and this is our Heaven and Hell right here.
     

  10. OK what you say is pretty true and is the 'good' message of christianity, sadly that is not the majority belief.
    I do think religious choice is a personal thing, my problem is that is rammed down the throats of children the world over which then leads to all sorts of problems (from the creationists to the jihadists.)
    Teaching to the young is classed as indoctrination and i firmly believe the world would be a better place if they were taught the principles of the scientific method, evolution and natural morality.
    How many would feel more secure in their place in the world if religion didn't paint a diffrent picture?

    That said i do think that religion has a place in the world as some people do seem to need it as a place of refuge but it should be someting people seek, not one that knocks on the door without invitation.
     
  11. it seems like another ancient story trying to explain why things happen. like the greeks having the story to Demeter and how it explains the seasons, so is genesis explaining how people got to where they are in present time (present time meaning in their "present" time lol) I mean when u think about it, the King James version of the bible starts off as the "world was new" or whatever with no explanation of forming the universe...probably because people at this time had no idea about the universe....simple as that

    We have modern science, they had their bibles
     
  12. #12 Mairuzu, Jan 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2010

    Spelling errors of dooooom haha. Okay where were we.

    Yes. The serpent created by god. God whom allowed the serpent (which represents satan) to deceive them. Simply to give adam and eve a choice do obey or disobey. It was the freedom they had. God told them the consequences. We were still on earth but we let sin and death in by disobeying god. It was us. To simply not eat the fruit would have had us in a perfect world. The fruit doesn't really give "knowledge" maybe a few things they'll pick up, like noticing they're naked, but mainly it made them realize what disobeying was. What sin was. The tree of life is guarded off. God doesn't want us eating it in our fallen state.
    "And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." Revelation 12:9
     
  13. still sounds like an ancient story to explain why we have a concious (spell check? lol). i just think people need to stop taking these stories so seriously. just a big book of why things happened . . . kind of a pointless read
     
  14. Why do you want to control what people think? Whats so wrong about letting them think this? You can believe what you want. Don't get me wrong though, i understand where you're coming from. But its not about taking it seriously. What we do in fact take very seriously, is the existance of Jesus christ.
     
  15. in no way am i telling people to believe in the bible or not. i believe you can learn everyday things in the bible (ex: jesus gives 3 people each a towel and tells them to go wash and work and they will be rewarded. 1st comes back and jesus is very proud and the man recieves 5 towels, 2nd comes back and jesus is pleased and gets 3 towels, and the last comes back doing hardly any work and jesus does not reward him with anything) Ill rephrase, i believe everyone should read the bible, but its an ancient story. we live in different times and with new scientific discoveries all the time, its hard to believe something that *remember* and oral tradition for thousands of years before someone even wrote it down . . .

    could have been plenty of change in those stories
     
  16. It's not just stories to be taken lightly. The bible is one of the oldest books, written over a period of 1,500 to 1,600 years. Spanning 40 generous... 40 authors from every walk of life, kings, peasants, philosophers, fisherman...poets, statesmen, scholars. I mean it was written in three different continents, three different languages. I mean the bible as the most authenticity then any book.
     

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