Should kids be punished for defending themselves?

Discussion in 'General' started by WeedCrawler, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. What do you guys think?

    If your child is being picked on mercilessly, and i'm talking about physical shoving and pushing, not just name you think you would tell your child it was okay to defend themselves with equal physical force?

    I would. The problem comes in when you have to teach them the difference between the NEED for it and trying other ways first.

    I'm not a huge fan of violence, and Definately not as a first resort, but...i do think it's okay to defend yourself or even someone else that is being physically hurt.
  2. When I was young I was picked on relentlessly by bigger, dumber kids. My dad taught me how to box, and then I took karate for a while. We had a rule. If I started any fights, I was gonna get my ass beat, but if they hit me first, I'm in the clear to defend myself and teach them a lesson. I never went looking for the fights I got into with those bullies. It was usually me putting up with their bullshit for weeks to months and then one day, just having enough and snapping. You don't get picked on for the rest of the year when you kick a big guy's ass. I thoroughly believe in the right to defend yourself through whatever means necessary.

    I guess I'll finish with a quote from Ghandi.
    I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. -- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
  3. I believe they will get theirs in the end way or the other, but that won't stop them at the time from beating you up.

    I'm talking about using enough equal force JUST to stop them. Not to beat the everloving crap out of them.
  4. Yes, avoiding violence is key for some people especially.
    I just let karma bite people in the ass. As much as I enjoy revenge; 90% of the time it just isn't worth it.

    a few stopping blows I use could possibly kill someone, which is why I avoid using them as much as possible (I strike pressure points and vulnerable spots in combat).

  5. Wang, you have a great father :)
  6. When I was in 3rd grade, there was this kid... well, he was just a real bad kid. For example, he had tried to knife my friend once (we were in 3rd grade!!!). Anyway, one day I went to my father for advice on how to deal with him, and he said, "son, tell him if he does ____ again you'll deck the shit out of him." (these were my dad's exact words.)

    So I did. The kid said something one day at school like, "I'm gonna kill you after school." I warned him not to say that again if he wanted to still be standing. He, of course, said it again, and I gave him a punch in the nose that caused him to drop to the ground like a sack of mail and start to bawl. A teacher (I believe it was a substitute) saw this and asked my why I did that. I explained, rather calmly for an 9 year old, that if I was realistically threatened by someone, I had the right to respond with physical force.

    Of course, the teacher didn't listen, and I was soon in front of the prinicpal, who said, "I'm just so angry with you right now that I can't speak." I smiled and told her that that was fine, that I could come back. She screamed at me to sit down. She said that violence could result in expulsion or something like it, and I nearly flipped my lid.

    "So, if I get threatened by a kid, when can I defend myself? When he makes the threat? When he pulls a weapon? When he takes a swing? Or never?"

    The answer I got: "NEVER! You should just ignore them and they'll go away, or tell a teacher. That always works." As any child between the ages of 5 and 18 will tell you, that advice is given at least 30 times a day and is completely worthless.

    It was at this moment, for the first time in my life, that I realized the authorities weren't looking out for my best interests. I paused for a moment to make sure I had understood her correctly. Something came to a boil inside of me. To grasp the effect of what I said, imagine an old, harsh woman in a suit looming over a scrawny, short 9-year-old. The nine year old stands up, looks the woman in the eye, and says:
    "That's fucking bullshit, ma'am."

    I then turned and walked out of her office.She screamed after me, but ignored her and went back to class. After a few minutes in class, the prinicpal appeared and a meeting was called with my parents. They supported me, and I never remember being worried about expulsion or anything.
    I was never punished for punching the kid, and he soon moved. All's well that end's well, huh?

    There are two answers to the original question. The short one is a "yes" with an "if" and the long one is a "no" with a "but."

  7. woah... 9 ?!?!?!

    anyhoo, cool story and even cooler parents :D

    apart from the fact i am against (the majority) of violence :p
  8. if sum1 starts picking on u then u fight backj if they wont listen to verbal reseaoning

  9. ive read this before, i know i have. I can GARAUNTEE ive read the SO... part

    this is wierd... first interet deja vu ive ever had.
  10. Tellurride is my hero, by all means. In first grade, I went to this after care run by this grumpy former fire fighter named Mr. Gaskins. Well, one time we had to go to this special building for some reason and there were no adults where I was. So, about 4 kids came up and started picking on me. 2 4th graders, 1 third grader, and one 1 2nd grader were the assholes. They started really pissing me off when they started throwing tennis balls at me after verbally attacking me. By now, I kinda had a sense this was gonna escelate. What these dumbasses didnt know, was that I was very enthusiastic about my new Tae Knwon Doe(<SP?) program.

    Well, they started getting even closer to me, still throwing tennis balls. Well, when one of the 4th grader, Jeremiah, starting invading my personal space. I just had this insticnt to swing. Well, for some reason I closed my eyes while I hit him. I could tell I hit him pretty hard because he didnt hit back and he was moaning. I saw his eye, it had this ugly red mark on it, and I believe it was bleeding also or something. All 4 bailed but I was the one punished by mean old Mr. Gaskins.

    After that, Jeremiah was my personal 4th grade bitch.
  11. that a funny story, but whats ABH?
  12. If and when I have kids, they'll know how to defend themselves. Kids should know how to fight back if for no other reason than to try to protect themselves from bad people that prey on kids.

    I believe if some kid goes up and punches the shit out of another kid, then that kid should be in the right by knocking the crap outta the little bully who started it. I don't think kids should get away with starting fights but if someone else starts it then they have every right to try to finish it. That's how I feel, at least.
  13. I have taught my kids to not start any shit and take all you can take before you fight back... Words or a little shouve is not enough to fight.. If another kid goes as far as starting to punch or seriously threat with physical violence, then only get your assed whipped if there is no way of winning..

    I teach respect first, and then last choice fight.. Words never hurt unless you let them.. Being annoyed by ass holes is still no reason to fight.. Only when things get violent should you ever physically fight back..
  14. i'm goin through something like this with my little guy. he's turning 6 soon, and he's been getting bugged at school.he just got glasses, now i'm his mother, and i think he looks just so friggin adorable in his glasses. like the kid off jerry mcquire. so cute. but he's gettin bugged. and it breaks my heart. he's just one big bundle of love. and some shits are hurtin him. i feel for him. i'm not one of those moms that will sit there and say oooo noooo, my son would never do that. i'm sure he's started a few fights on his own. keep in mind that these boys are just kids, and it's not fist fighting here. not yet anyways. idk what to do. i want him to be able to defend himself. but i don't think it's right to fight at all. walk away. i'm trying to show him to just walk away from the situation. before it gets ugly. it's hard tho. my little man. poor guy.

  15. I know how this goes Daisey, my little boy (who's 8) just got glasses a few weeks ago too, and came home crying after the first day that kids were making fun of him and calling him 4-eyes, etc. I told him to hold his head high and tell them 4 eyes are better than 2 :p (and teaching him the "sticks and stones" verse helped too). My little guy is also (in my opinion) is so damned adorable in his glasses. Good Luck, and tell him to hold his head high. :)

  16. That is taken from a Simpsons episode that I don't remember. A character asks Reverend Lovejoy if something is wrong, and he says, "Ooo, long answer: yes with an if, long answer: no with a but."

    So, yeah, I kinda stole that line. But it works for a lot of things.
  17. when i was 3-4 i was playing AYSO. my game was starting in a bit and i was just fuckin around with the ball (crappy jugglin and crap) and i see this kid, prolly 3, getting pushed around by this 6-7 year old. now, take into consideration, im 19 and im only 5'8" now, so i was a tiny terd back then. i walked in between the kids, put my hand on the douche's chest and said "stop pushing him. did he do anything to you? then stop" or something along those lines. the kid stopped. persoanlly i was amazed. i was expecting a short fall down this hill we were standing on. he just walked away. the 3 yr old said thanks and walked away. my parents are still proud of this (they were watching the whole thing).

    this is the one instance where words won out over violence. i've only been in about 3-4 REAL fights, like where i wanna kill the kid. one thing that'll help is to just not give up, then people stop messign with you. i haven't been in a fight in at least 8 years. granted, if someone started a fight with me now, i wouldn't stand much of a chance but you can be certain that i wouldn't just give in.

    anyway, tell your kid, try words. warn the kid that if he keeps doing crap that you'll tell a teacher. if the teacher doesn't do anything and then your kid gets in a fight *BOOM* teachers fired or at elast warned for neglegence and everyone will eb keeping their eye on the little douche who started shit.

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