Should CEO's give up corperate jets?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by maxrule, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. Control of what market? If you examine any exploitative monopoly you can trace its power to the state, otherwise it would not exist.

    Do you know what fractional reserve lending is, and how the artificially low federal funds rate causes malinvestment?

    You are ignorant if you present history as one sided as you do. Without the evils of capitalism, free exchange between two people, you would still be struggling under a subsistence lifestyle dominated by the state. You should broaden your vision and accept the benefits the world has made through capitalism.

    True the labor practice during the industrial revolution was poor, but where would we be without such revolution? And we are past that era where worker abuse goes unnoticed. In todays information age, even without current worker protection laws, a company would not last long with such abuse. It's not fair to pin a dark period for labor, which lead to the largest increase in standard of living ever, as 'the history of capitalism'.

    I agree with having laws to protect workers, and we should have adjusted our laws according to the changing industrial climate... and that's why we were a Constitutional Republic.

  2. Fuck, for the last time, they're capitalists too. I can't argue with a bigot, it's disgraceful for me to even reply. You're not a worthy adversary, arguing back and fourth with someone like you just decreases the validity of my ideology. Like an adult arguing with a retarded child with autism. Not a good look.

  3. just wanna quote myself.... because i'm right
  4. Wait a sec... I do agree its a waste of fuel, but tell me, how is burning fuel bad for the environment?

    (If you can just link me to a study that proves CO2 is a pollutant) ;)

    And they travel for more than just meetings, things that would require more than a video conference.

    If their companies were still failing, I would say they should fly commercial. But we got their backs, right?
  5. Get off their diiicckk.

  6. They destroyed the RV for the same reasons that they destroyed the SUV, the same reason they over taxed the yachts and just like they are going after aviation. It destroys the environment, you don't need it, it's wasteful.

    Have you not been paying attention? RV'S are a capitalist luxury; like the SUV something to be loathed. That is evil and wrong and not eco friendly.

    You can keep your thermostat on 70 and ration your food because it would not be right for us Americans to just drive our SUV's and eat what we want. Only the ruling class is allowed to do that in the new America.

  7. #47 overgrowray, Feb 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2009
    "how is burning fuel bad for the environment? "

    are you serious?

    The airline industry estimates that its planes account for just 2 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, though some environmentalists put the figure closer to 5 percent. Whatever the true percentage, it's widely believed that airplane emissions are particularly harmful to the environment because of the altitude at which they're released; the carbon dioxide may start affecting the atmosphere right away, instead of wafting upwards and dissipating en route.

    In addition to emitting carbon dioxide, their engines also spit out nitrogen oxide, which creates ozone high in the atmosphere. And jet contrails may help form cirrus clouds, which are alleged to contribute to global warming.

  8. Fraction reserve banking, or fractional reserve lending is where banks only keep a fraction of their reserves from deposit, in essence to help aid the creation of new funds. An artificially low fed rate causes poor investment because it essentially allows for money to be produced at a far rapid pace, and tends to result in hyperinflation, although not always the case. Right now with our artificially low fed, inflation has not been the result, rather deflation.

    Did I pass your E101 test satisfactorily? Or am I not fit enough for this discussion?

  9. On the face of your argument, sure, environmentalists(and most would argue that the democratic party supports enviromental causes) would love to see SUV's and RV's destroyed. Before gas hit 5.00$ last summer, what legislation was enacted by the liberals that put the nail in the coffin? I agree that, sure, liberals WANTED to get rid of gas guzzling vehicles, but you are simply arguing based on anecdote and belief.

    Can you please link me to something, anything that shows a connection between the downfall of the RV and democrats. Demonstrate that democrats were able to rise above their desire and were actually able to have a profound impact on the course of the gas guzzler.

    Sure I agree that democrats wanted the gas guzzler to go by the wayside...apparently according to Exxon and OPEC, we were having a supply crisis. So why not push to make vehicles more energy efficient? But I haven't been able to find information that shows they were able to strongarm RV's into death.
  10. All the dishonest CEO's that got us into this mess should be fired and sent to jail. The money they earned by illegal means should be taken from them and given back to the American tax payers whom they have robbed.

    Of course, I'm not so naive as to believe this will ever happen.
  11. It's easy being a little commie fanboy, but as far as improving this world goes we owe it all to capitalists. From every moral philosophical perspective capitalism is a positive force.

    Yes, I'm serious. There is no proof that CO2 is a pollutant, unless you are aware of a study I have not seen. That is what I asked for, not some brainwashed article on plane carbon emissions.

    Almost! You got fractional reserve down. The reserve ratio is often 10:1, for every ten dollars lent the bank must hold 1 dollar in reserves. By interbank lending banks can essentially turn 100 dollars into a 1000 dollars through pure manipulation. All the while leaving the banks susceptible to a liquidity crisis, for if a high number of depositors withdraw funds there would not be enough money... thus the fiat aspect of the dollar. A small run on the banks happened in September 2008, and required the Fed to print billions in new dollars.

    This practice would be OK if there were competing currencies that opted out of such stupidity, but since we are federally forced to only accept the Federal Reserve note as legal tender it is wholly unfair to the citizens.

    The low funds rate doesn't lead to inflation, but rather creates credit bubbles. With the risk ratio held down investors will be more likely to do things they otherwise wouldn't. If one business borrows at the low rate to expand their business and incur debt, all its competitors will do the same. Fact is, the rates shouldn't be that low (now at 0%), and this is how all bubbles are created.

    Deflation is when you see a contraction of the money supply, or sometimes a spike in the lending rate. We are not even near experiencing deflation right now. The fall in housing prices does not reflect deflation for the entire economy, it is simply a return to normal rates from an artificial high. The housing market isn't near bottom yet, as politicians are struggling to fix prices. There is no way we can avoid impending inflation from all this money we have recently printed and are in the process of pumping into the already inflated system.

    If we lived in a capitalist society there would be no state monopoly on currency, forcing us to accept a worthless fiat medium of exchange, and we would not have dangerously low lending rates causing malinvestment. Banks would not be 'predatory' if they did not have the Federal Reserve's destructive practices backing them.

    A heavy progressive income tax and centralization of credit into the hands of the state are two of the ten planks from the Communist Manifesto, and we signed both into law in 1913 with the Federal Reserve act.
  12. #52 stoned budda, Feb 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2009

    LOL. dude i already OWN my own business. My wife and i started it in our garage 12 years ago. We moved the operation into a 20,000 sq ft new steel building two years later,and even in this economy we are doing very well. I grew up far from the proverbial silver spoon. But we worked our asses off.

    I pay my employees well, and with the rest of MY money, i buy every toy i can, from Harley's, to antique cars, i eat the best food money can buy, and buy the best drugs, a lot better than my workers, why? Because i worked my ass off, i risked the original capital, not them. I EARNED IT!

    My business depends on dealing with these "evil" corporations and in turn they get a quality product at a reasonable price. They are not attempting to eat me alive.

    You need to leave this "animal farm" communistic mentality that you spew behind or YOU will never be a millionaire or billionaire, you'll never own your own factory, you'll never own the means of production.

    How old are you 16? Quit crying and being a victim, you can attain just about anything if you get off you whiny ass and work for it, no ones, even Saint Barack is going to give it to you.
  13. ^^^^ Capitalist scum!

    How dare you work hard and achieve financial success for yourself, what about the rest of us bumpkins that aren't smart enough to compete in the market place?! You are a traitor to humanity, if it were up to me you would be shackled in a prison so that me and my lazy ass komrads could divide up your wealth and party.

    Survival of the fittest only applies to dirty animals, we are a civilized species that should devote ourselves to the survival of the weakest. We must chop down all the trees so they are the same size, no Oak may rise above another!
  14. Why did you put "evil" in quotation marks, as if I said it or even implied it? It's not a question of morals, or victimization, "right or wrong". For all I know a capitalist could be a good person and a good father, but that's irrelevant.

    The objective reality is that the capitalists have interests that are the exact opposite of the workers' interests. This inevitably leads to class antagonisms and class tension, which manifests itself into class struggle. The only way to end that struggle is by a proletarian revolution. That's not a matter of morals, it's inevitable.

    Capitalism has brought the enlightenment, revolutionized the productive forces, and brought the production capacity to a level the world has never seen in the hundreds of thousands of years humans have been in existence. New breakthroughs in medicine and science have found cures for diseases that have plagued society for hundreds of years. Capitalism had it's role in societal development, just as feudalism played it's role, and the slavocracy before that.

    However, there are two contradictions within the capitalist system. The first contradiction is that production is already socialized. It takes millions of people all over the planet to produce one item. Everyone on the planet is interconnected and intertwined. We couldn't survive and have such a high standard of living if it weren't for the socialized mode of production. Yet, ownership is privatized. A single person owns a company, makes all its decisions, and exploits those millions of workers to make a profit. The capitalist at the top constantly attempts to maximize profit by keeping wages low, while the workers have to daily and hourly sell themselves just to make an existence. They make the system run, but they don't run the system.

    The second contradiction is that we have a global economy. It takes every part of the world to produce one item. All the nations are interconnected, and can't survive without every other nation. Yet, there are capitalists at the top of every nation with their own imperialist interests, and attack other nations to maximize profit. Each nation competes with each other, yet each nation needs each other. This contradiction leads to wars, genocide, and destruction, while the workers in each nation have absolutely no interests in war.

    These two contradictions are responsible for all the crises we face today. They could lead to another great depression, and in turn lead to another world war.

    So it's only logical to correct these contradictions, to "solve" the inequality. Since production is already socialized, it's only logical to socialize ownership. Since it takes everyone to produce one item, it's only logical for everyone to own the means of producing that item. Since the economy is already globalized, it's only logical to abolish the nation-state and establish an international community, based on association, not competition.

    The internal contradictions within capitalism can never be solved, and will eventually lead to it's own destruction. That's the objective reality.

  15. This is true, in the 80s people were paying 16 to 23 percent interest on thier mortgages and that was the people with good credit and twenty percent down. The banks were all making money then.
  16. ok mr. communist i'll play your game.

    What will you do with people who decide to not contribute to society?

    How will you take care of the lazy so to speak?

    Are they to be punished or give handouts, and do you realize the ethical dilemma this will cause?

  17. We are not even near experiencing deflation right now? Really?
    Just because the energy and housing markets bubbles burst, doesn't mean that retail prices haven't retrenched. With people holding onto their money, consumer confidence in the shitter, core inflation has gone away, the overall CPI has been flat since aug/sept.

    Deflation can be measured simply by across the board price decreases, and well, only education and health care seem to be immune to the drop in consumer spending thus far.
    Will inflation most likely be the problem down the road? Most likely yes. But at this point in time are there indicators of deflation taking conditions seem to point towards yes. As much as housing, credit and energy was leading to inflation, it has crashed consumer spending, which has consumers hoarding and saving their money. Less credit available, less money being pumped into the economy...on the face of it, there's some deflation going on presently.

    I know I may not be quite the economic genius as you are, but I'm not near the ninny you seem to think/imply I am.
  18. Very Orwellian.:smoking:
  19. #59 CREAM, Feb 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2009
    Lets play your game.

    You think that capitalism has a good and efficient way of dealing with those who don't contribute to society?

    Basically you are saying that communism creates a system based wholly on exploitation by those who don't contribute.

    Well, capitalism is also based on a system of exploitation. You can call it marxist all you want, but without a working class making less than a fair amount, the upper class doesn't exist in such a hierarchy. Outsourcing is a great way of showing how capitalists will exploit the system if given a chance.

    And don't give me that "we don't live in a true capitalistic society anymore." Before the income tax and other practices put in place in the early 20th century, the system still thrived on the upper class getting where they got by exploiting cheap/even slave labor (gasp--you mean to tell me that capitalists wouldn't turn down free labor while overlooking the ethical dilemma?).
  20. Sorry but the world needs ditch diggers too.

    If you don't want to dig a ditch then get off your ass and go to school and better yourself. Student loans and grants are available too all.

    I realize some may not have the mental capacity to go to school, so they along with the lazy will remain the ditch diggers, there's no way around it, its a sad fact of life and we move on.

    Yes there will always be poor and there will always be the wealthy. If you are unsatisfied with your station in life, change it.

    The truth is capitalism works if you allow the system to correct itself with out unknowledgable politicians interfering.

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