Should CEO's give up corperate jets?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by maxrule, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. I find it hilarious that this fundamental point about capitalism is still debated today.

    Well actually I don' unbiased opinion can fundamentally distinguish the interests of working and upper class. However, in order for capitalism to work, the machine has to go on unfettered. Therefore it is the job of those beneficiaries of a capitalist society to show why the system is the best and most fit for all, and to do their damned best to refute any evidence that capitalism in essence is based on taking advantage of another.

    What I love about the system is this:
    I have two friends who I went to college with; one got a degree in zoology and one a masters in psychology with a bachelors in adolescent education.

    One is now working at a zoo picking up elephant turds and the other is just starting in social work, helping less fortunate PEOPLE.

    Guess who makes 34,000 and who makes 28,500 a year?

  2. All solid points, however...the elite tend to be those that are in control of the market, si?
  3. Under communism, the division of labour doesn't exist. One could pursuit their dreams, and society would make use of it.

    28,500, 34,000, they're both a tiny sliver to the value they actually create. Under communism, consumer goods will be at such an abundance that currency could be abolished completely, and everyone's needs and wants would be freely available to them. The division between work and non-work will cease to exist, and work will become a source of fulfilment, rather than a burden.
  4. Marx was a news journalists, most famously, he was the foreign correspondent for the New York Tribune, a leading republican newspaper at the time. All he made was a hypothesis though, and just like in Darwins day, who has had plenty of his theories even the ones on evolution re-written so saying the proletariat is inaccurate because it is idiotic to expect to know the future.
  5. It wasn't simply a hypothesis, any more than Darwin's "hypothesis", which happened to be correct.
  6. Look saying capitalism has failed is one thing but saying the working class will inheriat the earth has not happened, so saying it will is a hypothesis.
  7. Sorry comrade but the is America. If i run a business and its doing well and turning a profit then I'll fly in class if i so choose. Its the ones that are doing it on the tax payers dimes that are wrong.

    Why doesn't everyone focus on the private jets used by certain (democratic) members of congress.
  8. #28 Kasu, Feb 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2009
    But it's logical. Throughout history, progress has been made through conflict between classes. Capitalism was born out of feudalism, when the bourgeois merchants overthrew the aristrocracy to establish a new society in it's own interests.

    Capitalism was a necessary stage of development. When it played a progressive role, it brought the enlightment, and brought the productive forces to a level unwhich the world has ever seen.

    However, it has ceased to play a progressive role. Now, rather than making process, it's devouring itself through the irrational and unplanned anarchy of the free market. Imperialist wars are destroying human life and the environment. Capitalism now stands like a road block in front of progress. It's obsolete.

    Because of this understanding, it's up to the communists to provide leadership to the angry working class, and lead them to revolution. They have nothing to lose but their chains, they have a world to win.
  9. Your conceptions on capitalism are based on wishful thinking, not facts. I hate to break it to you, but you will never become a capitalist. You'll never be a millionaire or billionaire, you'll never own your own factory, you'll never own the means of production. You might start your own petty-bourgeois business, but rest assured it won't last. The larger capitalists would quickly devour you, and you would soon be liquidated back into the proletarian masses.

    No matter how you look at it, you'll be stuck in the working class for the remainder of your life. You'll have to sink to selling yourself hourly just to make a pitiful existence. It would be in your best interests, and the interest of the working class as a whole, to violently overthrow society as we know it and establish a new society based on fulfulling social needs, rather than for profit.

    Everyone will be "rich", and enjoy a high standard of living. Everyone will live in leisure and luxury, be able to travel where ever they wish, and be able to discover their true talents.

    At this point, society would rapidly progress. Technology would advanced at an unprecedented rate, wars and diseases will come to an end, and there will be no such thing as poverty or hunger.

    Only when the means of production are controlled democratically by the masses of society, can they be used rationally and fulfil everyone's needs. Profit will become useless.
  10. Maybe it isn't a problem with capitalism but a problem with humanity, ever thought to yourself, people just might not be perfect.
  11. Then everything is hopeless and no efforts should be made to improve? We might as well all kill ourselves right now.

    Capitalism isn't the end of history. There were systems before it, and there will be new systems after it, and the only possible and logical system to succeed it is socialism and then communism.

    I simply can't see a capitalist future. Either there is a global socialist revolution, or society descends into barbarism and we destroy ourselves.

  12. Its the central bank/feds are fucking up the capitalism and of course, the govs.
    If they never dare to touch the marketing/business, the system would still be running almost perfect.

    Communist will never work. We'll all get the same pay. Janitor would be making same amount as the scientist. That is not fair at all.

  13. ...Cool, cool... when and where do we start?
  14. If you read my posts, you would have known that under communism, everyone's needs and wants are provided to them. A janitor could be a scientist in his spare time. He could be a fisherman in the morning, a labourer in the afternoon, and a philosopher in the evening. Everyone would have an equal, free access to everything they could want and need.

    Are you ignorant of capitalism's history? It's a history of long hours, low wages, no safety conditions, the use of child labour, blacklists.. Children were forced to live in the company barracks. Workers had absolutely no say, and if they tried to unionize they'd be arrested and blacklisted.

    The system was obviously in need of reform. Why would anyone in their right minds support a system that not only doesn't benefit them at all, but actively exploits and oppresses them? The reforms were made to protect the capitalists from their own greed. They were made to "satisfy" the workers, while at the same time protecting the capitalists. They were indeed capitalism's best friend.

    However, it's becoming evident that such social programmes are impossible to sustain in the long run, and are meager at best.
  15. You and I cannot predict the future, so why try, just as I cannot say capitalism is the endall system, you cannot say it will be succeeded by another system.

  16. Under that system everyone's wants and needs will be decided by people like Obama, Pelos and Reed.

    Under communism consumer goods are manufactured, produced and distributed by a central government. That means you have to depend on the government for all you got. That means they can also take it away if they don't like your vote.

    Under communism there are NO home growers because there is free market to provide goods necessary. Walmart makes it possible for me to grow my homegrown.

  17. they been talking about this for a while. i think they should do away with all private jets. not because of money; just because its a waste of fuel, bad for the environment.

    ppl shouldn't travel unless they have to. biz trips are b/s, they can do them over a web cam. we have phones and the internet, why the hell would you travel halfway around the world just to have a meeting.

  18. There were crappy oppressive systems before and Obama and the dems want to take us back to one.

    The worlds wealth was created by free market capitalism and the American worker. Everything you have and enjoy can came from it.

    I maintain that the entire world would live in the 1800s had the US not come along with a free capitalist society to show the rest of the world how wealth is actually created.

    You Obama supporters and liberal democrat socialist are too blind to see the road ahead. You have been successfully dumbed down to the point of believing the opposite of reality.

    Obama and the liberal democrats destroyed the RV in America with their stupid anti capitalist policies and then Obama has the nerve to come to Elkhart IN, with 15 percent unemployment because all the RV factories are gone and promise them a "Bridge to Nowhere". :rolleyes:

    Some of you still get it, but the responses to this post prove that capitalism has been successfully demonized by the left in this country.

    In my opinion the CEOs can keep thier jets and we can cut waste by taking them from the idiot idiot politictions like Pelosi, Dodd, Frank and Reed who live entierly off the tax payer.

  19. In your mind capitalist are greedy, but some how liberal politicians are not. Greed is an affliction of the human heart. The liberal socialists running this country have already proved that they are as greedy as you can get.

    And besides, where were you taught history that you learned about the ills of capitalism and not about the evil of communism?

    Pelosi flies around on a corporate jet, eating 100 an oz steak, all at the tax payers expense. She flies back and forth from San Fran to the capital all the time. None of the dems seem to be paying their taxes and seem to get free perks like free cars and drivers as well as undocumented workers for their mansions. That is the kind of fairness your going to get from these people.

  20. The liberal democrats destroyed the RV in America?
    Oh. Surely gas prices had nothing to do with it? Or is the whole energy crisis squarely the liberals fault as well?

    Fuck both parties, they are both filled with elitist pricks.

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