Shocking treatment!

Discussion in 'Advanced Growing Techniques' started by Freshfed, May 14, 2011.

  1. Hey folks, I have a theory that I would like feedback on.

    Ok so to my shock and horror a few weeks ago I discovered a presumably large population of White jumping insects in my coco (and I almost died), upon vastly researching, I have drawn the conclusion they are springtails! Now I don't want to get into a beneficial vs. Detrimental debate so for argument sake let's just say elimination would be beneficial overall!

    So I've done lots of reading into these little guys and turns out alot of people have issues controlling populations without stressing the plant too much, well, I believe I have found a method that would both increase plant growth, vigour and rootmass all while eliminating every insect in the media safely... How I hear you say?

    Electric currents!

    A) shown to improve root growth, Infact studies show that roots will grow towards the electrode, and plants grow stronger, faster, even with a 90 degree, horizontal growth direction, so not only can you improve the plants health but potentially you could control canopy growth via electrode positioning in the media.

    B) this electric current will kill all insects instantly, A's if your damp media was a giant fly squatting electric net. All adults and maturing springtails die as will all eggs, an instant eradication!

    So, what do people think?
  2. Try it on one plant and tell us what you think. It would be similar to a CO2 kill. You flood the room with 10,000 ppm of CO2 and then all bugs suffocate while the plant recieves a huge dose of a beneficial ingredient.
  3. #3 Freshfed, May 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2016
    That would be great if I had an enclosed environment but probably a few leaks so he ppm wouldnt sustain in my space, although great idea for tents etc!
  4. how are you planning to deliver the current ?
    how much current?
  5. #5 Freshfed, May 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2016
    I'm not sure yet, need more research to find a fatal point for insects and probably electrodes in the coco.
  6. It's not going to work. I wouldn't waste my time...


  7. does that opinion come with reasoning and evidence or just what you think?:smoke:
  8. Reasoning... How much voltage/current do you think it'd take to kill a bug? And then to kill roots? What about the bugs that aren't going to be in the path of the current? You'll kill your plants long before you even make a dent in your bug population...

    There are far better solutions... Diatomaceous Earth for one...



  9. well dihydro is good for surface but not for the base of my coco plants. I have plants, in coco, that need sorted. well I know that studies have shown positive growth with lower voltages...treatment with DC-60 V for 3 hr led to the highest increase in rooting rate (122%) and number of roots (100%) compared with the control. Significant increases in rooting rate and root growth parameters indicated that DC applications may have the potential to improve propagation of grapevine rootstocks that are difficult to root by cuttings.

    And I obviously don't know the insect death point or else I wouldn't have opened this thread for INFORMED opinions, I would have done it and reported my success, I know bug zappers can be 15W and that's just a quick search online... I think their will be a safe voltage for a plant that would kill tiny insects, obviously just a theory but its one I aim to test.

    finally, being in coco and saturated completely with solution, I don't think any insect would escape the current, even if it did initially, I doubt they would survive for 6 hours under continuous direct current *providing their is in fact this 'safe voltage' ofcourse.

    please do me a favour and if you want to reply< help on the subject by doing some research and provide evidence. Thanks for your thoughts though. :smoke:

    Effects of Direct Electric Current on Adventitious Root Formation of a Grapevine Rootstock -- Köse 58 (1): 120 -- American Journal of Enology and Viticulture
    JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
  10. I never seen anything on electricity stimulating growth that was even partly scientific. If you have links, I'd love see them.

    If you had a dwc grow, you could try zapping roots to see how much they can take. They can't be tougher than a fully grown bug. I do know that bug zappers work so well because its just the bug channeling the current and its enough to heat the bug up enough to make them explode. Trying to do zap a whole pot, so every place had that much current would have to cook your roots at the same time...

    Give it a try though... it'd be nice if it was possible...

  11. Just in Lokis defense here, if he says it wont work its not an uninformed opinion. This guy is a whizkid mad scientist of the highest order. I agree as well that voltage may help roots but it will not kill your bugs witout higher current. Besides that, the bugs will be at a different electrical potential than the plant. Try covering your soil with sand, or use Sevin dust. Good idea though for root growth, but its not practical for bug control. Youd be better off hanging up a bug zapper.

  12. my last post I put two links at the end for you :)

    thanks for the knowledge on bug zappers, I wasn't sure, I knew it was current but not that heat was cause of death. I will need to do some more research when I get time and see if I can find this 'safe to plant, deadly to insect' zone!

    also I agree, it would be great if it worked lol :smoke:

  13. the uninformed opinion statement was intended directly as a response to his statement shooting down the idea but without providing any reasoning why... so from my perspective, it appears uninformed. I have no doubt their are many brilliant minds hiding in here, but an opinion without backup is useless to me... everyone has opinions, but I need proof to believe them (usually academic journals).

    Peace man, taker it easy :D:wave::smoke:
  14. hey man, i had this problem recently and thought it was spider mites. so i ran out to the store and bought lady bugs. well they wernt spider mites but there mostly gone now and its been 4 days
  15. This was the question you asked, so Loki's reply, whether you consider it informed or not, was responsive to your question.

    FWIW, I can't imagine that the amount of current that would be needed to pass through the plant in order to kill a bug sitting on it would not also kill the plant. Plants may respond to low-voltage emissions, but they aren't immune to the detrimental effects of higher voltage electricity. I just don't see how it could be deadly to the bugs and also safe for the plants at the same time -- either it's so low that's it's safe to both or it's so high that it's damaging or even deadly to both. That's just my uninformed opinion.
  16. nope, i wouldn't be putting an electrical current through my plant.
    i'm sure that neem oil will get rid of your bugs just as easily...

    the thing is, you don't want electricity to
    1) super conduct with your water next feeding and really shock/burn your plants
    2) make the plant use up certain parts of their nutrient bank
    3) could get some sort of "burn" like nute burn, but more for the electricity (think about shocking yourself and your nails)

    put it to you this way, if i could beg for a dollar from 10 people and buy some neem oil i'd do that before i hooked a battery up to my plant..
  17. ok folks, so here is what I have dug up on D.C current experiments!
    In the 1840s, W. Ross of New York reportedly obtained a severalfold increase in the yield of a field of potatoes when he buried a copper plate (5 ft x 14 ft) in the earth, and a zinc plate of the same dimensions 200 ft away. The two plates were connected by a wire above ground, thus forming a galvanic cell. In similar experiments by Holdenfleiss (1844) with battery-charged zinc and copper plates, yields increased up to 25%.(7)

    From 1918 to 1921 some 500 British farmers developed a shared system to treat their grain in an electrified solution of nutrients. The grain was dried before sowing. The farmers cultivated about 2,000 acres with the seed. The results were reported in Scientific American (15 February 1919):

    "In the first place, there is a notable increase in the yield of grain from electrified seed... the yield of the electrified seed exceeds that of the unelectrified by from 4 to 16 bushels... The average... is between 25 and 30 % of increase... The increase in weight has ranged from 1 pound to as much as 4 pounds per bushel... Besides the increase in the bulk of the yield and the increase in the weight per bushel, there is an increase in the straw... whereas the bulk of the unelectrified seeds had thrown up only 2 straws per seed, the electrified had thrown up 5.... The straw growing from the electrified seed is longer... The stoutness and the strength of the straw is increased... the crop is less likely to be laid by storms... Corn growing from seed thus treated is less susceptible to the attacks of fungus diseases and wireworm.

    "The effect produced upon the seed is not permanent; it will retain its enhanced efficiency only for about a month after electrification, if kept in a dry place. It is therefore desirable that the seed be sown promptly after it has been electrified... The grain must be steeped in water that contains in solution some salt [sodium nitrite] that will act as a conductor... The seed is steeped in it, and a weak current of electricity is passed by means of [iron] electrodes of large surface attached to two opposite end walls of the tank. The seed is then taken out and dried.

    "Seed that is to be sown on one kind of soil will yield better results with a calcium salt, and seed that is to be sown on another kind of soil will yield better results with a sodium or other salt. One kind of seed will need treatment for so many hours, and another kind for many hours more or fewer. Barley, for instance, needs twice as long treatment as wheat or oats. The strength of the solution and the strength of the current must be appropriate, and are not necessarily the same in each case. The drying is very important. The seed must be dried at the right temperature, neither too rapidly nor too slowly; and it must be dried to the right degree, neither too much or too little." (2, 3)

    In 1964, the USDA performed tests in which a negative electrode was placed high in a tree, and the positive electrode was connected to a nail driven into the base of the tree. Stimulation with 60 volts DC substantially increased leaf density on electrified branches after a month. Within a year, foliage increased 300% on those branches! (4)

    Electricity also can cure trees of some diseases. A method was developed in 1966 to treat avocado trees affected with canker and orange trees with scaly bark. An electrode was inserted into the living cambium and phloem layers of the tree and the current passed into the branches, roots or soil. The treatment is best administered in the spring. The length of treatment depends on the size and condition of the tree. New shoots appeared after only one cycle of treatment. After the bark was removed, the trees began to bear fruit! The period of grafting stratification also can be shortened in this way.

    The passage of an electric current modifies the physico-chemical properties of soil. Its aggregation increases, and its permeability to moisture improves. The content of absorbable nitrogen, phosphorus, and other substances is increased. The pH changes. Usually, alkalinity is reduced, and evaporation increases. Both alternating and direct electric currents have a bacterial action which also affects the soil microflora. Up to 95% of cabbage mildew and other bacteria and fungi can be destroyed by electrical disinfection.

    Brief exposure of seeds to electric current ends their dormancy, accelerates development throughout the period of vegetation, and ultimately increases yields. The effect is greater with seeds that have a low rate of germination. The metabolism of seedlings is stimulated; respiration and hydrolytic enzyme activity is intensified for many types of plants. Lazarenko and Gorbatovskaya reported these results:

    "Reports that the characteristics acquired by the plants in electrically treated soils are transmitted by inheritance to the third generation are particularly interesting.

    "Under the influence of the electrical current, the numerical proportions between hemp plants of different sexes was changed by comparison with the control to give an increased number of female plants by 20-25%, in connection with a reduction in the intensity of the oxidative processes in the plant tissues."

    "At the end of vegetation the experimental cotton plant possessed twice or three times as many pods as the control plant. The mean weight of the seeds and fiber was greater in the experimental plants also. In the case of sugar beet the yield and sugar content were increased, and in places near the negative pole the increase in sugar content was particularly high. The tomato yield increased by 10-30%, and the chemical composition of the fruit was modified. The chlorophyll content of these plants was always greater than that of the control... Corn plants absorbed twice as much nitrogen as control plants during the vegetative period... The transpiration of the experimental plant was higher than that of the control, especially in the evening...

    "The stimulating action of the alternating current was greatest when the current with density of 0.5 mA/sq cm... A direct current with density of 0.01 mA/sq cm had approximately the same action. When these optimal current densities were used in hotbeds, the yield of green mass could be increased by 40%." (1)

    P.V. Kravtsov, et al., reported that the population of ammonifying bacteria (especially the sporogenous type) increases about 150% when soil or compost is exposed to continuous low-power DC. The symbiotic activity of nodule bacteria with bean plants was characterized by massive nodules near the base of the root. Field experiments were conducted on 40 hectares. The peas treated with electrified inoculant produced 34% more yield than a control crop. Carbon dioxide evolution in the soil increased over 35%. The authors also reported that treatment of seed with electric-spark discharge destroys microflora and activates the germination process. (5)

    An electrified fence was invented by Henry T. Burkey in 1947 to keep fish out of irrigation ditches. The fence consisted of a free-swinging row of electrodes connected to a generator which slightly charged the water to shock fish without hurting them.(6)

    1.Lazarenko, B. & Gorbatovskaya, J.: Applied Electrical Phenomena #6 (March-April 1966)
    Ross, W.: U.S. Commissioner of Patents Report 27: 370 (1844)
    2. Sci. Amer. (15 Feb. 1920), pp. 142-143
    3. Practical Electrics (Nov. 1921)
    4. Moore, A.D.: Electrostatics & Its Applications; 1972, Wiley & Sons
    5. Kravstov, P., et al.: Appl. Electr. Phenom. 2 (20): 147-154 (Mar.-Apr. 1968)
    6. Popular Science (Oct. 1947), p. 94
    7. Ross, W.: U.S. Commissioner of Patents Report 27: 370 (1844)
  18. yes this works

    and those of you who say no it wont, its because you never tried it

    there is another forum here about it and there are many links to articles, including one called plantricity, that all say the same thing, that energy will increase the growth and health of plants, whether that energy comes in as sunlight, or electricity.

    it also has been shown that electricity in low doses will replace a lack of sufficient lighting, and that high currents in open fields the fruits and grains grow larger, are healthier and have longer shelf life.

    i currently have a solar cell in my micro grow and a couple other "crazy things" going on, but i have seen a marked improvement in growth in less than one day.

    dont knock it till ya try it!
  19. #19 Freshfed, Jul 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2016
    Awesome thanks! Can you link where you can buy that? I'm happy someone finally agreed lol
  20. lol you can buy it anywhere!

    its a simple DIY

    buy one of those solar patio/garden lights....ya know those ones that you stick in the ground and they turn on by themselves at night....

    most garden or home stores, or walmart carry them for less than $5

    you need to take it completely apart leaving only the pv cell and wires that are coming off of it

    be carefull not to damage the cell, it is probably glued in so you will need to cut away and pry it off carefully.

    i used some spare wire i had lieing around and connected it to the leads that were connected to the cell.

    then covered all the connections with electrical tape.

    then put the cell near the light and the wires in the medium....not too close to the main stem

    i used the shaft part of the light against the back wall to hold the cell up near the light and run the wires through....and it looks good. just taped that hollow shaft against the back wall

    it is easier than it sounds....just take the whole thing apart, and mount the cell somehow and put the wires in the dirt :)

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