Selfishness

Discussion in 'Pandora's Box' started by jcH09, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. Selfish: (adj.) Concerned chiefly or only with oneself.

    When I was high one time, a strange thought came to my mind: How come every single thing I do is selfish? Is it possible to carry out an action that isn't selfish? And then I spent a long time trying to figure out something I could do that wasn't selfish at all.

    A day later when I was sober, I remembered these thoughts and again tried to think of an action that is completely selfless. I found this to be impossible, and it intrigued me. I came to the conclusion that it is impossible for humans to perform a single entirely selfless act.

    When I say "completely selfless", I mean doing something that does not benefit you in ANY way. So I thought doing a simple insignificant action like touching the wall or dropping a pencil would be selfless. When I performed the actions however, I realized that they were selfish actions after all. By doing these things, I was trying to prove to myself that it is in fact possible to perform a completely selfless act. Therefore, my actions were selfish.

    I was brought up a Christian by my parents, who are very religious, but I'm not. However, I did read the bible and I remember that it tells people to not be selfish, but selfless. How can we be selfless when even God (assuming that God does exist) can't be selfless? Sure, God loves the people he created, but he loves his own glory more. Otherwise, he wouldn't have created us in the first place, because according to the bible God created people to worship him. Once again, I would like to clarify that I am NOT religious. But basically, this was probably why I had these thoughts in the first place.

    I know this thread kinda seems stupid, but idk I've been thinking about this for a while I just wanted to share it.
     
  2. give some blood to a dying relative or stranger, smoke'm out when they're released after a full recovery.
    there ya go.
     
  3. That would be selfish for 2 possible reasons:

    1. You want to be a good person (or at least build up the image of one).

    2. Trying to prove the selfish theory wrong.

    The second reason is mainly why I think it's impossible to do anything that's purely selfless.
     
  4. bud is a drug of togetherness. smoke up your friends, i'm sure they'd appreciate it and maybe return the favor later. just a thought :p
     

  5. I do, but that doesn't mean I don't smoke by myself once in a while. You really never tried smoking by yourself?
     
  6. most definitely. i was just trying to offer a word to the wise to make u feel better.
     
  7. it's the negative attitude you're giving selflessness dude.
    think about the people who will never take selflessness in the way you're currently taking it. They'd give blood and organs to their family in need without thinking of both those reasons.
    i'm sure there is such thing as pure selflessness, you just have yet to encounter it, and while thinking so hard about how absent or negative it may be in your own life (not to assume anything about you or your life, just an observation) you attach an image to something you may not know 100% about.

    not everyone in the world has alternate motives for everything they do, my friend. :D
     
  8. But that's the thing...even the example that you gave isn't completely selfless.

    Giving an organ to a family member? Why would a person do this? Because he/she loves the family member, and it would be a loss to this person if his/her family member died.

    And as for giving an organ to a complete stranger...I definitely wouldn't, and I don't know a single person that would without having some form of selfish motive inside. Humans are imperfect and we are technically animals. It is our instinct to benefit ourselves..how could anyone give an organ to a complete stranger without thinking about him/herself?
     
  9. again, you're speaking as if every single human is wired exactly the same.
    i don't know about you, but if i was gonna die, and my family gave me an organ with their reasoning being that they LOVE me and they don't want me to die, then I'd definitely consider them selfless, even if just for that moment.

    A selfless act doesn't mean that person isn't imperfect, it just means that in that moment they did something courageous for another person. Whatever they may think they've done for themselves is the imperfection, and irrelevant. The fact that something good was done at the risk of someone else's well being is selflessness, and should be the only thing that matters in that moment of the act.

    It's all subjective, though, so I'm not sure why I continue aside from this being good conversation.

    EDIT: I'm stoned so I hope I'm making at least some sense, if not, i'll come back to this later and try and explain myself better.
     
  10. Lol you're making sense man. Well this is where our disagreement lies: we have different definitions of selfishness and selflessness.

    What I consider to be selfless is an action that is completely for the will or benefit of others regardless of your own welfare, health, etc. Here's an example: let's say that your dad really wants to commit suicide. He's 100 percent sure about wanting to end his life. However, he's completely paralyzed. You are in the room with him, and you have a gun. Would you put the gun in his hand, point it at his head, and pull the trigger for him, despite the fact that you'll probably be charged with murder and end up in prison?
     
  11. Congratulations, you can over analyze a word.... Thats all your doing here. I understand what your saying but I think your just looking at it too hard.
     
  12. I suppose I can see why all acts could be considered selfish. I tried to +rep you OP, but its gotta recharge.

    I guess the only determination that matters is whether the act you're performing is intended to reward you, either in the short term, or the long term. Intention is everything. If you smoke somebody up with the idea that "they'll get me when I'm dry" then no, that's not a selfless act. I could make other examples, but I think you'll understand what I'm getting at.

    And just about the Bible bit: I don't think the purpose of creation, according to the Bible, was so God could have somebody/something worshipping Him. In several places (Jeremiah, Psalms, Proverbs, Ezekiel and Jonah...off the top of my head) the Bible teaches that this existence is a probationary period. Although the pre-Josiah's reform Old Testament doesn't deal with an afterlife, there are various Targum and psuedepigrapha that do, and pre-exilic Judaism certainly had a belief in an afterlife with God (or the gods, more accurately). The purpose of life, then, according to the Bible and biblical thinkers of that time period, was a preparation to live in the presence of God. The Bible tells us that God doesn't need worship, but He is worthy of it.

    I do think, however, that Pauline Christianity turns this on its head and expounds the idea that creation serves the purpose of worshipping God.
     
  13. #13 Blazzin9, Oct 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2009
    Giving a ride to a friend/helping out a friend when you don't really want to.

    Done it a few times just to be a good friend without expecting it returned in the future. Didn't feel better about myself after, didn't enjoy doing it, just did it because I felt like I should.

    Edit - Lending money too, a friend borrowed $80 last week...I have no intention of ever barrowing from them, no interest or anything, and again didnt feel any better about myself etc.
     
  14. Fuck yea, I love reading this kind of stuff.

    To answer your question, I think it's impossible to do anything selfless. The only way to would be to do it by accident, so yea it's possible but not knowingly.
     
  15. Yes what you say is true. Intention IS everything in determining whether a person's actions are selfish or selfless. My doubt lies within the possibility that a person could perform an action without any selfish intent at all. Of course, I will never know if this is possible because I do not know the thought processes of every single person in the world, as someone stated before. Thanks for the insight on the biblical stuff, I never knew that (I've only read parts of the bible, not the whole thing).

    Btw, your sig is ridiculously funny. I was laughing for a while when I read that.
     
  16. #16 jcH09, Oct 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2009

    One word: morals, aka what you believe is right and wrong. You said that you really didn't want to help out your friend, but you did it because you felt like you should. If you hadn't, you probably would have felt guilty about it later on. To avoid this guilt, you must help out your friend, making this action selfish.

    I'm not trying to assume anything about you or your morals, I'm just analyzing what you told me and coming up with an explanation. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

    Haha that was one of the thoughts I had in trying to come up with a selfless act. But the problem is, even unconscious behavior can be selfish. Examples: biting your fingernails, cracking your knuckles, fidgeting while sitting or standing, itching yourself, putting your hands up to your face when laughing, etc. Do you do any of these things? If so, tomorrow try not to do those things. You'll find yourself feeling uncomfortable. I have a habit of doing all of these things. If I don't do them, I can honestly say that I feel uncomfortable. When I say uncomfortable I don't mean it to a severe degree, just slight discomfort. Even avoiding this can be considered selfish using the definition I wrote in the OP.
     
  17. I don't believe i'd have felt guilty, I do see what your saying though..maybe I should have said "Because it was the right thing to do."? Who knows though maybe i'd have felt a little bad..eaither way I didn't conciously do it to advoid guilt in the future.
     
  18. I have spent a damn few years thinking about this stuff myself. Even the most revered charity work can be considered selfish because people do it to feel good about themselves, directly or indirectly.

    I have come to two possible answers to this paradox. Firstly, there is no true or absolute answer to anything when you really think about it. Every "law" and theory we create is based on observation and comparison to other laws and theories. From this, how can we claim to definitively know a single fact. Secondly, a person who is completely isolated from any form of human contact, saving the life of a creature who can never comprehend what has happened, through the ending of that human life, has done so without selfishness. Just my stoned, poor assessment.

    Seriously, don't think too into some things. Just admit we know nothing and try to find out what the question and answer mean to you.
     
  19. Well I'm talking about unknowingly before and after, meaning the one had/has zero knowledge of completing a selfless act.

    For example say you lose your job, now someone else has an opportunity for your previews occupation. I would consider that selfless, you don't know the person and chances are you probably never will, but you did help them out.

    Anyways the point is, if you have any sort of knowledge of helping someone out then that act is not selfless. We'll never know about our selfless acts.

    Fuck my mind is blown, time to make a quesadilla (first time I have EVER written that word out, it's fuckin weird).
     
  20. Lol I appreciate your perspective, but this isn't science. And yes there is a definitive answer to this subject, it's just that it is impossible to know for sure. If you could know what every single person was thinking at all times, then it would be possible to figure out an answer. However since mind reading isn't possible, speculation or ignorance are the only options.

    Your second possible answer is almost impossible. The world we live in today is populated by people everywhere. The only way to isolate a person from all others would be to conduct a controlled experiment and actually prevent that person from reaching the outside world. This would never happen because such an experiment would be deemed unethical and it would be illegal to perform it. If somehow the experiment was to be conducted, even this would be a form of human contact. The experiment would fail without someone providing sufficient food and water to keep the person alive. Even if this were achieved without human contact, the creature that the person is supposed to save would have to be in some ridiculously improbable situation in which the person must give up his/her life to save it. And even if THIS situation were to occur, there is no guaruntee that the person will do so.

    Considering all of this, it's pretty safe to say that it's impossible for this to ever happen.
     

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