SCROG

Discussion in 'Growing Marijuana Indoors' started by storz, Dec 20, 2023.

  1. Greenmonster714 and other scrogers:

    I scrog 90% of the time but I made an observation that I hope other scrogers can help me with their scrog experiences.
    Greemonster714 never tops his plants while preparing his plants for a scrog. I used to adhere to that practice as well but It seems to me that when I scrog all the buds are a little smaller than if I let the plant grow "naturally" w/o training. IOW the amount of total bud weight is genetically determined and the more bud sites, the smaller the buds. So does scrogging actually provide more product or does it seem like more because the number of bud sites increases but each bud is smaller. Bottom line: fewer, bigger buds or scrog and have more buds but smaller. If this is true, topping the terminal bud is irrelevant-2 smaller buds equals one big cola?

    Secondly, how many plants would you place in a 3x3 for scrog? 4x4? 5x5? This leads me to another question-----for the number of plants in each above tent size, what size container would you use per plant since scrogging takes a longer veg.

    Third, Larf. how to minimize it. The more dense the canopy, the more larf. Should I just thin out the canopy for light penetration so to maximize each bud by minimizing larf (sacrifice bud sites) or do you routinely harvest the tops of the buds and let the under growth mature more for a subsequent 2nd harvest? I do lollipop a lot but I am talking about the bottom 1 to 2 inches of each bud. There are usually a couple "buddlets" that just dont look ready but the above 3/4th is. Thoughts?
     
  2. Scrogs are pretty awesome methods of growing but it's not for everyone. It can be labor intensive making to simply to much work for some.

    I have experienced smaller than usual buds in a screen just as you described. I had broken the rule of to many plants and paid the price for it. Most fall into this trap at first. They think more is better and the screen will fill faster with many plants. This is the kill shot before even starting.

    If your experiencing smaller bud it is prob a overcrowding issue, or lack of proper nutrition. I'm guessing overcrowding. Your not a new grower.
    If you look at my avatar you will see a over the top out of control Scrog. 4 plants in a 4x8 cabinet. I had multiple smaller buds. They simply didn't have room. Even with constant leaf and stem removal they blew up and I lost control.

    It is important to not over crowd under a screen.
    3x3 1 plant
    4x4 definitely no more than two
    5x5 same as above
    4x8 3 plants

    Larf...just happens in a scrog. She's all bent and distorted and shits growing in all directions...lol. Thinning out is very much needed in most cases but if your not overcrowding it's kept to a minimum. I removed leaf at a alarming rate during flower. I try not to remove any branches but I have had to in the past when you get a leggy sativa under the screen.

    If your overgrown and finding bud maturing on top by all means harvest them to open more for others still going. But again, if your not overcrowding that's not much of an issue. Your canopy should all ripen at the same time.

    Being a scrog grower I'm sure you do clean out under the screen once they are set in place and flowering. It helps ventilation a lot. Air can get stagnant under the screen so a fan is suggested once all the larf is taken. But your prob already on that.
    That larf makes great butter..lol.

    I've just started back into growing. Basics are all still there. I had planned on a scrog but have decided to just tie down these girl and let them flower instead of waiting to half fill a screen. Next grow I'm in it though. Flowering clones and all.
    I hope I may have answered some of your questions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. idk about that. You get things right and each bract can be one plant. You should visit my media pages (ie albums as linked in my signature).
    one.
    prob 4 if the style was right, but it gets difficult to work on the back ones. My current grow I have one in a 40"x40" tent, and that was a pain to work on.
    I get good harvests with 5 gal in DTW or even peat. Maybe 7 gal. IMO Go hydro. You'll get bigger plants
    The slowest part is starting them; once they reach a certain maturity, they grow fast, and it really depends on the system and strain.
    Fastest growing ime has been aeroponics, like the rig I use.
    If you learn when to lay the trellis, you can control the stretch. Everything under the canopy gets stripped. But if you stretch say 6-8" even canopy, then you will maximize the light exposure and there will be little to no larf, and only top bud. This is also strain dependent. Some strains just want to keep stretching. In that case, defoliation. and side lighting or under the canopy lighting.

    also see
    How To SCROG
    although i don't always need to double top like I showed, but I did with my current grow.

    Sometimes I can achieve a lot just training.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. So many different ways you could grow. I'm digging the 5 gal bucket in bucket sip system using a 5-6 gal cloth grow bag at the moment. it is neat, takes up less floor space, "perfect" watering, less damp soil on top to attract fungus gnats. Yes, yes, yes for training no matter which way you go. Topping???, depends, photo's Yes unless the plant/your instincts tell you not to. This is where exp comes in handy, Autos? No but I have & it's going Apey. De foliate? Me yes about every time I go in the room, let the light in but only remove fan leaves to start, then the leaves in the middle more than the outer leaves. Scrog if it needs it, some do/some don't IMO. this will come later in the grow. Lolli popping to reduce Larf? Again, if it needs it. Exp & instinct, listen to it.:metal::passing-joint:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. If you know you are gonna scrogg, clones all from the same Mother plant "should" finish flowering much closer in time vs growing different strains with different flowering times, that can be a real PIA in a scrogg. Oh & if you are gonna get the stretchy nets from amazon, they stretch out, get the smaller sized holes,imo.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. TY for the replies. Yes I am overlooking an overcrowding problem. I tuck branches under the screen only to have two bud sites right next to one another. I try to let those bud site grow out more so I can spread them out away from one another but it often doesnt seem to happen esp with indica leaning strains. BC of this I Have been contemplating mainlining first before setting my net to spread things but all I am doing is sort of kicking the can down the road so to speak by turning 1 plant into 2 and thus back to overcrowding again. Instead, what I am taking from this is that having fewer plants will cause me to utilize more time, and more growth so I can spread things out more.
    Reviewing links now..ty
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. My net is from Pot Lab. Best scrog net i have ever seen, built or used imho. Amazon of course
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Yep i use SIPs also.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. #9 CO BlueGreen, Dec 20, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2023
    My method and approach is to top the plant once. I usually top above the 10th node and remove the growth at the 2 lowest nodes. Removing the lowest growth allows me to install my black cover over the hydroton and nutrient tubing.
    When a plant gets topped we are removing the “terminal” bud. The terminal bud distributes a hormone that suppresses any dominance at the apical buds (outer buds on lateral branches). When the terminal bud is removed the apical tips will compete for dominance. A similar phenomenon occurs when a grower bends the stem over without removing the terminal bud. The hormonal shift is not as strong with bending but still will produce strong lateral growth outwards.
    When we SCROG we try to develop an even level canopy to maximize light exposure and minimize shading. As we keep the canopy even and level we defeat the plant’s effort to create a new dominant leader with a dominant terminal bud. This allow the plant to develop secondary growth points along the stems. I will train those secondary stems to be the central portion of the canopy and the outer canopy is the tips of the original 8 lateral branches.

    upload_2023-12-20_13-11-49.jpeg
    In this photo you see the lower portion of the stems are trimmed clean right up to 2-3” below the net. Air flows freely through the branches.

    upload_2023-12-20_13-15-3.jpeg
    At 4.5 weeks of bloom the tops are 4” above the net. This is Topanga Cookies, a compact plant that produces tight compact buds. They get heavy. We may see another 2 inches stacked on these buds by harvest.

    upload_2023-12-20_13-19-38.jpeg
    Looking at the top is a level canopy with lots of developing bud sites. All the buds have a similar light exposure and are well ventilated.
    When I grow, I’m trying to grow a large harvest of potent flowers in a small engineered space. Long buds require height to grow. Do I think there is a heavier harvest with a SCROG vs a well cared for upright plant grown in the same environment? I think maybe, but I’ve been doing this SCROG thing so long, my opinion may be biased.

    2 plants in my 4’ x 4’
    My airpots are 3 gallon

    upload_2023-12-20_13-33-35.jpeg
    The results can be strain specific. This is Pebbles Punch. An aggressive grower with good stretch. These were grown in the same environment and with the same techniques and technology. This strain required the second SCROG trellis to be installed. Longer buds, not as compact.

    Pebbles Punch, large and loose
    upload_2023-12-20_13-40-9.jpeg

    Topanga Cookies, more compact
    upload_2023-12-20_13-41-8.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. When I scrog all my buds are big not small, depending on what you are growing I guess.
    Here's one plant in a 5x5 tent in a 20 gallon air pot and harvested over 27o/z and vegged it for 60 days. In promix Screenshot_20231220-162434.png Screenshot_20231220-162311.png Screenshot_20231220-104255.png
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Big container
    Big plant
    Big root system
    Big buds!!!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. @Clearsky
    Looks like you pinched the top too.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Yes I topped her to get 4 branches, ones headed each direction of the tent, then super crop her twice
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. @Clearsky
    Curious what your harvest weight will be and the grams per watt. Lots of light in your photos. Light makes a big difference.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Got 27+ o/z from plant, I had 1300 watts from wall but only had lights running at 50% I used them just for even coverage.
     
  16. Lots of great info for ya @storz. We all do it slightly different but in the end it's a scrog. Take the info that appeals to you and run with it. I think I remember you said you already do a Scrog. Maybe some of this info will help ya improve what your doing already.
     
  17. @Clearsky
    756 grams/650watts=1.16 grams per watt
     
  18. That’s a beautiful plant and respectful harvest.

    I think the best I’ve done with my 2 plant grow is:
    850 grams/400watts=2.1 gram per watt

    it’s not always that heavy, but was nice to see. Not the large donkey dicks some dream of.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. yes lots here to digest. TY to all.
    Last question:
    Do any of you manipulate your lighting to induce stretch on phenos that grow extremely compact to make scrogging easier/faster? Or, do you just understand that training will take more time with certain phenos. I deliberately lean toward sativas bc of this but would like to grow a pure indica soon and know it going to be a battle.
     
  20. Raising the lights farther away from the canopy may help increase stretching.

    The indica will take longer to fill in.
     

Share This Page