SCIENCE VS RELIGION! Bring your best argument.

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by mountainghost, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. I totally agree. Because there's more out there than what either can reveal.
     
  2. Answers like this make me lol

    But anyways... I choose Spirituality and Science over Religion any day... I mean seriously, how can people still fall for that trap? Christians don't even realize they believe in texts (Sumerian Texts, Which is were the creation account of Genesis is taken from) that talk about physical Gods that created humans as race to mine gold for them.... hahah and I haven't tried it yet, but there are certain unmentionables if enough is taken I have heard take away doubts of other realities co existing with ours :cool:
     
  3. I don't think religion is the answer.

    I don't think science is the answer.

    But I think when you put the two together you become spiritual.

    IMHO
     
  4. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYVRUnbRFbw]ONE DOLLAR BILL is PROOF OF GOD ~ ALPHA & OMEGA on the $1 bill part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElZh0aa6Al0&feature=related]ONE DOLLAR BILL PROOF OF { ~ GOD ~ } ~ #2 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHqM1Rs1TU4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL]ONE DOLLAR BILL PROOF OF [ ~ GOD ~ } #3 - YouTube[/ame]



    lol this guy has it all figured out
     
  5. #85 batenswitch, Dec 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2011
    The way I see Christianity (the same applies to the stories of other abrahamic religions, I'm just not as well-versed with them lol):

    Humans have been around for about 200,000 years. For the vast majority of those years humans lived in fear and disease generally for never more than 25 years (sounds like the typical life of a wild mammal). This obviously changed only a few thousand years ago when we started developing agriculture, language and communities (who knows what God was doing for those 180+ thousand years...right?).

    Then we come to Israel a couple thousand years ago. A smooth-talking spiritual guy started to gain some followers who liked what he preached. He may have even had some interesting spiritual experiences and told people about them. He was eventually crucified and died. People began to write his teachings down and spread them.

    Now, the fact that this was 1st century Israel (a population of people who believe in witchcraft, evil spirits, etc) is almost definitely the reason the life of Jesus was told with such fantastical stories. People started believing these ideas and eventually a church was formed and it started to gain political momentum.

    Skip ahead centuries later and the church was never silenced, and here we are today. Millions and millions of people whole-heartedly believing ancient-israeli legends. So I ask you, which is more likely, a person defying the laws of nature, performing miracles, and becoming resurrected, or a religious institution based on myths being instilled in the fabric of society for centuries. I say the latter, most specifically because there's no historical or scientific reason to believe any of those things happened/are possible.

    Closing argument lol: If you read the earliest claims of Jesus' divinity, you'll find they read similar to Buddha's teachings (with just a hint of Judaism), leading me to believe that maybe he wasn't even claiming to be anything special; maybe he spoke metaphorically and symbolically. More than that though, thanks to advances in neuroscience, we can now scientifically explain spiritual experiences people have: seeing God, hearing God, feeling like they become one with God, etc.

    So, scientifically explainable spiritual experiences + a guy named Jesus + superstitious ancient israeli people + religious political power = Christianity.

    This doesn't nullify Jesus' teachings or even Christianity in general, they can be as valuable as we allow them to be, but believing such stories as actual reality, I feel, hinders the scientific, philosophical and intellectual progress of humanity.

    End.
     
  6. An intellegent person does not need the concept of a 'Heaven' in order see the merits of being a good, ethical person and doing good deeds.
     
  7. ^^ bingo ^^
     

  8. Okay, I see what you're saying now. (In reference to the other thread about Jesus.) I didn't know how you were relating spiritual experiences to the divinity of Jesus. Because I thought people witnessed with their own two eyes some mystical powers that Jesus had. But was it just that Jesus explained his spiritual experiences and people believed them? I don't know. In fact I really don't know anything at all about the history of the Abrahamic religions...
     
  9. Oh by the way, as mentioned in the other thread that got deleted:

    Why the fuck is it that when something can not be explained ("something can't come from nothing," "universe is too complex"), that people fill the gap with god? What is it that causes people to think a conscious entity has any relation to the matter? If consciousness/self-awareness emerged through evolution, why the fuck would it have any relationship to the origins of the universe?

    :confused::confused:
     
  10. Science is at least progressive.
     
  11. What's great is that all the theists here keep talking about how science can't explain everything, and how some things can't be proven, etc.

    But they don't realize that atheism is not a belief, it is actually the lack of a belief.

    Imagine humanity as a random group of people, randomly placed in a completely dark room, with no light whatsoever. People feel around, they interact, they form ideas, theories, etc. But nobody will ever know what color the walls are painted.

    People start making stuff up, saying that the room is this color, the room is that color. People start saying that the room is one of many rooms, and that these rooms are a test. How we behave and treat others in these rooms will determine whether or not we spend the rest of eternity in the dark, or if we get to return to the outside world.

    The room leaves a lot of unanswered questions, and eventually people become split. Everyone has these beliefs, these conflicting views, and they fight, bicker, and make zero progress.
    ^Theism

    Now if they had never formed these irrational beliefs, and they had worked together, used whatever resources available, it's very possible that they could have determined exactly what they were doing there, and what to make of the situation.
    ^Atheism

    Of course we can't explain everything. It's a long fucking road to the truth. The theists don't agree on anything because none of them know anything, but they think they do. The atheists all agree, that we know nothing.

    We can sit around and humbly "live and let live", and yeah that's great and all, but is that working out? At all?

    We need to get together, and figure this shit out. Because I want to know what this is all about, and everyone else should too. It's an infinitesimally small possibility, but who knows, maybe somehow a god does exist, or a higher entity, or maybe something we can't even comprehend yet. WHO KNOWS.
     
  12. But don't you believe in reason???????:confused::confused::confused:

    I don't lack belief in unicorns, I believe they don't exist. I see a lot of atheists compare my theistic beliefs to a belief in unicorns. Why is this so, if it's simply lack of belief?
     

  13. There are "accounts" of people witnessing Jesus' spiritual experiences, however (in a historical sense) they're either embellishments in the writing or misconstrued ideas of reality. There are people in tribal areas around the world now who really claim to have seen their healers perform miracles, but that doesn't make it true. Jesus is just an example of such a scenario (only millions of people believe it).
     
  14. #95 batenswitch, Dec 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2011
    There are agnostic and gnostic atheists. Those who lack belief and those who simply believe there is no God. You believe there are no unicorns because you have good reason to believe they don't exist. I believe any claim of God intervening with reality is false, with good reason to believe so (for the same reason that you don't believe unicorns exist). I'm a gnostic atheist in that sense. That being said, I'm an agnostic atheist towards a deist God.
     

  15. Oh, so there are atheists who disagree. I understand there are agnostic and gnostic atheists, however, in the response I quoted there was no such clarification.
     

  16. Atheism by default is lack of belief ( a-theism, without-theism, without-belief-in-god). So the person you quoted wasn't necessarily incorrect, there was just a hint of generalization that all atheists are agnostic.
     
  17. The fact that such faith exists in the everyday behavior of humans suggests it was a necessary tool of survival (in our evolution) that just became exploited by the institution of religion.
     
  18. Aye, just as theism branches into many different sects, atheism does as well.
     

Share This Page